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Author Topic: Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?  (Read 7658 times)

Offline Seany

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Don't they all believe in the same God?

Then why the trouble?


 

Offline Nobody's Confidant

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It's the way they see him that differentiates, but wait for someone smarter to answer before accepting mine.
 

Offline Make it Lady

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Don't they all believe in the same God?

Then why the trouble?

Yes, but don't tell them, I think they quite enjoy fighting. If we all tiptoe away, they wont notice.
 

Offline Seany

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It's weird...
 

Offline turnipsock

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I thought they all had different gods and the fighting was all about "my god is better than your god". They can't all be correct, so somebody is going to look pretty stupid.
 

Offline Seany

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Oh.. I thought they all had the same god, but different routes.. LOL
Ermm, well hindus have different Gods.
 

Offline turnipsock

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ok, but this doesn't seem like science. If you found your way to be the leader of a bunch of people, you would need to pay a large army to keep them in check. Another method might be to climb a mountain and make up some rules and tell people that god has spoken to you so you better do as he says.
 

Offline Seany

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Doesn't need to be science..
It's "Just Chat!"
 

Offline Karen W.

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Yes it is!
 

Offline Karen W.

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I like that they all believe in a higher being but I also believe you believe the way you are able to and we will all have the same basic goal for the most part and end up in the same place regardless as to what we believe... I think having faith in yourself if you are unable to believe in a god or higher power is OK as that is all your spirit or self has allowed you to believe.. I do not think one is struck down for believing differently.. I think it is all about loving yourself humanity and just plain love.. God is Love.. at least in my opinion and I find love everywhere! Giving love leads to receiving love weather its reciprocated or not as one feels good when they give love and compassion to others creatures earth humans etc....
 

Offline turnipsock

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #10 on: 01/04/2008 01:31:25 »
I can never understand why people are willing to die for the religieon that they are born with. They could just as easily be born into a different one. Very few people seem to switch religeons. It seems a bit daft.
 

another_someone

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #11 on: 01/04/2008 01:38:56 »
God has little to do with the wars - it is the was the argue their case, but the underlying problems are usually more social and political, and religion is just used as a clarion call.

Right now, people are focussed on the Muslim/Christian/Jewish issue; but in the past it was the Protestant/Catholic (and the Muslim still have Shia/Sunni conflicts); and going back to the time of Christ, there was internal dissent amongst the Jewish peoples of which Jesus clearly belonged to one of the sides of that dispute.

The problems in Northern Ireland were split on religious lines (and to some extent, still are); but it was basically a political problem between the social groups, but religion is a way of defining the social groups (i.e. you go to church with your friends, while your enemies all go to a different church, but what the two sides actually believe in is less significant than the social act of going to church as a way of defining who you are in society).
 

another_someone

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #12 on: 01/04/2008 01:44:11 »
I can never understand why people are willing to die for the religieon that they are born with. They could just as easily be born into a different one. Very few people seem to switch religeons. It seems a bit daft.

People don't die for their religion, but for their social group.  Religion is just a way of defining your social group.

The reason people don't often change religions is because that would mean changing social groups.

In those societies where there is little pressure to remain in a given religion are societies where religion is a purely personal matter and give little in terms of social cohesion.    In these societies, religion actually plays very little part in the society, so it does not matter much to anybody which religion you belong to.
 

Offline JimBob

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #13 on: 01/04/2008 04:38:12 »
?

Obviously you never read a word about the Crusades, the proceeding's decades that led to the Peace of Westphalia, the Puritans and the English Civil War, the wars following the rise of the Moslem religion, or any of the other atrocities committed - such as The Inquisitions, witch burnings, etc. etc, - all of this was due to social pressure? - No, I think not.

Tycho Brahe Giordano Bruno (see below) preferred to die at the stake than disavow his belief in Copernican cosmology. Yeh, that had nothing to do with religion.

Riiight!

« Last Edit: 01/04/2008 16:25:15 by JimBob »
 

another_someone

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #14 on: 01/04/2008 05:18:11 »
Not sure where you get your information from?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tycho_Brahe#Death
Quote
Tycho died on October 24, 1601, eleven days after suddenly becoming very ill during a banquet. He was ill for eleven days, and toward the end of his illness he is said to have told Kepler "Ne frustra vixisse videar!", "Let me not seem to have lived in vain”. For hundreds of years, the general belief was that he had strained his bladder. It had been said that to leave the banquet before it concluded would be the height of bad manners, and so he remained, and that his bladder, stretched to its limit, developed an infection which he later died of. This theory was supported by Kepler's first-hand account.

Recent investigations have suggested that Tycho did not die from urinary problems but instead from mercury poisoning: extremely toxic levels of it have been found in his hair and hair-roots. Tycho may have poisoned himself by imbibing some medicine containing unintentional mercuric chloride impurities, or may have been poisoned. According to a 2005 book by Joshua Gilder and Anne-Lee Gilder, there is substantial circumstantial evidence that Kepler murdered Brahe; they argue that Kepler had the means, motive, and opportunity, and stole Tycho's data on his death. According to the Gilders, they find it "unlikely" Tycho could have poisoned himself since he was an alchemist known to be familiar with the toxicity of different mercury compounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tycho_Brahe#Astronomy
Quote
Tycho himself was not a Copernican, but proposed a system in which the Sun orbited the Earth while the other planets orbited the Sun. His system provided a safe position for astronomers who were dissatisfied with older models but were reluctant to accept the Earth's motion. It gained a considerable following after 1616 when Rome decided officially that the heliocentric model was contrary to both philosophy and Scripture, and could be discussed only as a computational convenience that had no connection to fact. His system also offered a major innovation: while both the geocentric model and the heliocentric model as set forth by Copernicus relied on the idea of transparent rotating crystalline spheres to carry the planets in their orbits, Tycho eliminated the spheres entirely.

As for the "Peace of Westphalia", that ended the thirty years war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War
Quote
The Thirty Years' War was fought between 1618 and 1648, principally on the territory of today's Germany, and involved most of the major European powers. Beginning as a religious conflict between Protestants and Catholics in the Holy Roman Empire, it gradually developed into a general war involving much of Europe, for reasons not necessarily related to religion. The war marked a continuation of the France-Habsburg rivalry for pre-eminence in Europe, which led later to direct war between France and Spain.

Much of the conflict in Europe between Protestants and Catholics (as between Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox Church) was a power struggles between the Church authorities, and later between the Church and secular Kings and Princes.

As for the Crusades, it says something that what started out as a call to arms by the Byzantines to help protect the Holy Lands, ended up with the Crusaders sacking Byzantium itself.
 

Offline Seany

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #15 on: 01/04/2008 10:21:12 »
?

Obviously you never read a word about the Crusades, the proceeding's decades that led to the Peace of Westphalia, the Puritans and the English Civil War, the wars following the rise of the Moslem religion, or any of the other atrocities committed - such as The Inquisitions, witch burnings, etc. etc, - all of this was due to social pressure? - No, I think not.

Tycho Brahe preferred to die at the stake than disavow his belief in Copernican cosmology. Yeh, that had nothing to do with religion.

Riiight!



Agreed there. Never heard of Tyco though..
Saladin...
Peter the Hermit..

All the people who attended the people's crusade.. Which was like 30,000..
 

Offline JimBob

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #16 on: 01/04/2008 15:59:50 »
It was late and I got Giordano Bruno mixed up with Tycho.

As for the rest - the people who died believed in the causes - they were manipulated but they believed in the reason they fought.

The slaughter of the Huguenot in France was done by ordinary people who believed they were being good Catholics. The French Army got into this later.

And as you quoted - "Beginning as a religious conflict between Protestants and Catholics in the Holy Roman Empire, it gradually developed into a general war ... " it was person on person living their belief.

It has been this way from 300 AD - Coptics and Gnostics slaughtered in North Africa by other Christians", Sunni on Sh'ia violence and vice versa - the list is jaw dropping.
 

Offline that mad man

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #17 on: 01/04/2008 16:35:43 »
When I was talking to a Muslim friend of mine she says that the Gods of religions are not the same.

When I pointed out that the arch angel Gabriel visited both Christian and Muslim prophets she maintains there is no connection and that the name is just a coincidence! ???

A Catholic friend, a priest, tells me that his Catholic God is not the same as others as his is the "one true God" and all others are false! A side note: the priest is now crippled from the constant kneeling down in prayer and unlike a plumber (similar problems from kneeling down) he cant get industrial injuries because he works for.. GOD!
Looks like God treats his own with compassion..cough

Seems to me that all the time there is more than one religion or more than one god it makes religion unworkable and laughable as it just becomes a case of "my god is better than yours"

As Dawkings would say "When you talk about God which God are you talking about as there are many?"

 

Offline Seany

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #18 on: 01/04/2008 17:18:53 »
When I was talking to a Muslim friend of mine she says that the Gods of religions are not the same.

When I pointed out that the arch angel Gabriel visited both Christian and Muslim prophets she maintains there is no connection and that the name is just a coincidence!

A Catholic friend, a priest, tells me that his Catholic God is not the same as others as his is the "one true God" and all others are false! A side note: the priest is now crippled from the constant kneeling down in prayer and unlike a plumber (similar problems from kneeling down) he cant get industrial injuries because he works for.. GOD!
Looks like God treats his own with compassion..cough

Seems to me that all the time there is more than one religion or more than one god it makes religion unworkable and laughable as it just becomes a case of "my god is better than yours"

As Dawkings would say "When you talk about God which God are you talking about as there are many?"



Now that makes it very confusing. So they aren't talking about the same God?
 

Offline JimBob

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #19 on: 01/04/2008 17:25:17 »
Seany - they ARE all talking about the same God, even if the say they are not.

When I was talking to a Muslim friend of mine she says that the Gods of religions are not the same.

When I pointed out that the arch angel Gabriel visited both Christian and Muslim prophets she maintains there is no connection and that the name is just a coincidence! ???

A Catholic friend, a priest, tells me that his Catholic God is not the same as others as his is the "one true God" and all others are false! A side note: the priest is now crippled from the constant kneeling down in prayer and unlike a plumber (similar problems from kneeling down) he cant get industrial injuries because he works for.. GOD!
Looks like God treats his own with compassion..cough

Seems to me that all the time there is more than one religion or more than one god it makes religion unworkable and laughable as it just becomes a case of "my god is better than yours"

As Dawkings would say "When you talk about God which God are you talking about as there are many?"




I agree with you - there are fanatics that say all the other gods are false - no matter what religion they are speaking from.

In the history of theology, though, Christians, Moslems and Jews all are descendent's of Abraham. It is the same god but this is why the wars get fought. Intolerance and bigotry among the populace and power struggles among the priests and politicians.

 

Offline Seany

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #20 on: 01/04/2008 17:28:04 »
Seany - they ARE all talking about the same God, even if the say they are not.

When I was talking to a Muslim friend of mine she says that the Gods of religions are not the same.

When I pointed out that the arch angel Gabriel visited both Christian and Muslim prophets she maintains there is no connection and that the name is just a coincidence! ???

A Catholic friend, a priest, tells me that his Catholic God is not the same as others as his is the "one true God" and all others are false! A side note: the priest is now crippled from the constant kneeling down in prayer and unlike a plumber (similar problems from kneeling down) he cant get industrial injuries because he works for.. GOD!
Looks like God treats his own with compassion..cough

Seems to me that all the time there is more than one religion or more than one god it makes religion unworkable and laughable as it just becomes a case of "my god is better than yours"

As Dawkings would say "When you talk about God which God are you talking about as there are many?"




I agree with you - there are fanatics that say all the other gods are false - no matter what religion they are speaking from.

In the history of theology, though, Christians, Moslems and Jews all are descendent's of Abraham. It is the same god but this is why the wars get fought. Intolerance and bigotry among the populace and power struggles among the priests and politicians.



So if it's the same god.. How come different religions originated?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #21 on: 01/04/2008 20:03:59 »
If (big if there) the universe was created by a God then there's clearly only one God, He's the one who made the place and, since all 3 religions talk about the God who created the earth they must all be on about the same one.
Some religious people are bigotted enough not to want this and plenty of them lack the grasp of logic to accept it. If you come across one of these people you might want to ask them why all 3 groups end their prayers with the same word.
Of course, if there is no God then all these questions go away (including the really difficult one; "where did God come from?").
 

Offline Seany

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #22 on: 01/04/2008 20:43:17 »
Do Muslims say Amen after their prayers?
 

Offline that mad man

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #23 on: 01/04/2008 20:53:44 »
Quote by Seany:

"So if it's the same god.. How come different religions originated?"

I'm not sure myself but think its partly due to the need at the time for some sort of separate identity coupled with the fact that most common people at the time were uneducated, fairly illiterate and believed what they were told. In a sense they were easy prey and religion was then used as a means of control over them.

In the past it was usually the case that the teachers of Christian religion were the educated ones, sons of the rich who were also in positions of power and influence. They could read the Bible text written in Latin, interpret and then teach it whatever way they wanted as no peasants would have read it.

Is it just me that thinks that God does not seem to play a big part in religion now? It seems to me more about the various prophets than God.


Christians use Amen, Muslims use Ameen so I suppose its the same.  Should add, not after every prayer though.

« Last Edit: 01/04/2008 20:55:39 by that mad man »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #24 on: 01/04/2008 21:14:58 »
"Do Muslims say Amen after their prayers?"
Pretty much, and so do the Jews (with slight modifications of pronunciation).
They also basicly believe in the same Old Testament.
 

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Don't Jews, Muslims, Christians.. All believe in the same God?
« Reply #24 on: 01/04/2008 21:14:58 »

 

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