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Obama or Clinton??

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Offline Seany

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Obama or Clinton??
« Reply #25 on: 02/04/2008 09:34:13 »
Yes, Obama indeed.



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Obama or Clinton??
« Reply #26 on: 02/04/2008 14:51:58 »
So what? The inspiration to rise above your personal limitations is what charisma is all about.

Not at all - charisma (at the risk of crossing threads) has more to do with stage hypnotism (OK, you might argue that a stage hypnotist can also get people to achieve things they thought themselves not capable of).  We saw far too much charisma with Tony Blair - all charisma and no common sense.

Have you never been inspired by someone to archive more than you could believe yourself capable of?

I have always archived far too much, without any need for inspiration - now achievement is another thing, but never had problems with archiving stuff ;D

In that respect, G.W.Bush actually is a good team manager. 

Again, you are know not of what you speak.

G. W. Bush is a complete idiot that is being used as a figure head - I knew the Governor of Texas whom Bush replaced. I once had the pleasure of having lunch with her - I know her son, Clark. When I asked her - Ann Richards, who only served one term - what she thought about the up coming election and her chances against Bush (for Governor - he was running against her) she said her chances were not too good because of the organization that was backing him. It was a right-winged group headed by oil and gas companies, service companies and world-wide construction companies headquartered in Texas. They wanted some favors from the sate - they got them. Hallburton was at that time headed by it's CEO, Dick Chaney, now our vice-President.

Bush was and still is a figurehead. He has little if anything to do with actual governing. It is Chaney and those others behind the scenes who actually run this country right now. That is why this election is so important. When asked by another person siting at the table that lunch-time, "well what do you think of Bush's intelligence (or something to that effect) she answered in her inimitable way "Well, the kindest thing I can say about him is that he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer." 

With that understatement, we knew she thought Bush was a complete idiot and I must gather from his performance and that of those who run him, that the inmates are in charge of the asylum.

Ann Richards was the person who said the the Democratic National convention that "He (George Bush} can't help it - he was born with a silver foot in his mouth."

Not sure anything you have said really contradicted anything I said, except that I think Bush is brighter than he is made out to be, but was very inexperienced in his role (that is the nature of the US presidential system, and presents problems for any newly elected President), and (as I myself suggested) he was served by a poor team.  The point I was making all along is that the President and the Presidency are two different things (in that respect, it is no different in our Parliamentary system - Churchill would not have achieved what he did without Clement Atlee, and the early years of the Thatcher administration were greatly helped by the presence of Willy Whitelaw in the Government).  Over the last 12 months, I do detect a change in the Bush administrations approach to matters, and an indication that lessons have been learnt, but alas too late to have avoided the disastrous mistakes they made during their years of inexperience.

Both LBJ and the first Bush had the benefit of having served as vice president before taking on the Presidency themselves; and as I said, Churchill has 40 years of experience in Parliament, having at some time been in several different senior ministries, before becoming PM.

Offline JimBob

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Obama or Clinton??
« Reply #27 on: 02/04/2008 17:12:03 »
Up until a mid 2007 the Bush administration was run by Karl Rove, who resigned under fire because of MANY criminal investigations that were making it difficult for the Administrative Branch to function. He was also under considerable criticism by his own party because of his poor conduct of the 2006 mid-term congressional elections that  allowed the Democrats to regain control of Congress. His successor as Chief of Staff, Joshua Bolton, appears to  have the main task of salvaging the Bush reputation, rather than running the country.

The first time G.W. Bush was ever asked about going to war with Iraq was on his way to his helicopter on the White House Lawn from the White House itself; his answer as to why war - "Saddam tried to kill my daddy," referring to a plot uncovered by the intelligence community after the 1992 war for Kuwait. It was the only time he said that. It was a lapse into reality for George.

As for a discussion of the Bush administration and George Bush himself, it is a useless exercise to explain to someone who has not lived with the subject intimately and with attentiveness, day in, day out, for the last 20+ years, and has no inkling of just how bumbling Bush is perceived by those of us who are his critics. The examples of the Bush stupidity are legion. He had ample training to enter the White House but never was "well trained" - always a screw-up.

So here is a taste of what Bush is like - from Wikipedia (the bold and italic is mine)

"As a college senior, Bush became a member of the secretive Skull and Bones society, although, by his own characterization, Bush was an average student.[14] (he was in the lower quarter of his class)
"In May 1968, at the height of the ongoing Vietnam War, Bush was accepted into the Texas Air National Guard despite[15] only scoring in the 25th percentile[16][17] on the pilot's written aptitude test, which was the lowest acceptable passing grade.[15] 

"In 1970 Bush applied to the University of Texas School of Law and was rejected." (he never received a law degree from any other institution either.)"

Bush failed in all of his business ventures, inculcating his ownership of the Colorado Rockies, a baseball team.

It is sad that some people live on the dreary hamster wheel of logic, reason and cynicism, not being able to see how charisma - or inspiration - has a role in the human equation nor the imagination to allow for anything outside of their own personal experience.

Two quotes:

"A man's dreams are an index to his greatness."
    Zadok Rabinwitz

"A person starts to live when he can live outside himself."
    Albert Einstein

This discussion is quite analogous to having a discussion with a emotionless computer pretending to be human. And a computer that doesn't have all of the facts at hand.

I am out of this discussion - it has become pointless and so very, very uninformed.
« Last Edit: 02/04/2008 17:13:49 by JimBob »

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Obama or Clinton??
« Reply #27 on: 02/04/2008 17:12:03 »


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