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Author Topic: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)  (Read 21911 times)

Offline LadyCapt

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« on: 06/04/2008 03:23:38 »
I recently found these eggs shaped things while rock hunting. They were all together in a clay bank. Any idea what they are? I have several, two appear to have some type of a fossil in them. Any information appreciated.
« Last Edit: 09/04/2008 17:03:36 by JimBob »


 

Offline LadyCapt

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Re: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #1 on: 06/04/2008 03:33:42 »
I have found these all over my property.. any info on why there would be sea shells in the ozarks?
 

Offline LadyCapt

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Re: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #2 on: 06/04/2008 03:37:23 »
This is a small collection I found in about three hours. Can anybody tell me anything about them?
« Last Edit: 09/04/2008 12:55:26 by BenV »
 

Offline JimBob

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Re: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #3 on: 06/04/2008 09:41:00 »
OK - HERE GOES NOTHING!



From what I know of the geology of the Ozark's you do not live in the San Francisco Mountains. That's granites and other hard rocks. The Salem and Springfield Plateaus are both mostly composed of Devonian and Ordovician dolomites and limestones - (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_time_scale for geologic time-line) Fossils such as those in the first two sets of pictures are not usually found frequently in these rocks. That leaves the Mississippian Limestones and sandstones that occur around the edges of the Ozarks and in the Boston Mountains in Arkansas as the most likely place the first set of pictures came from. The last one kind of clenches - but not with absolute certainty - this in my mind. (More on this below.)

The fossils label A and B are most probably simple ammonites from the Mississippian. They could be snail shell cast but I do seriously doubt this. C is a conundrum unless it is a hip socket from a amphibian skeleton or, more likely, it was once a soft place in a stream bed where a round pebble settled into a hole, the current wasn't strong enough to push it out so the hard rock just wore out a hole deeper into the surrounding rock. The latter is the most likely explanation. D & E look like broken flint an could be from indians making tools - these would be the discards - but they can also occur naturally. The other two - ? Turn them ovewr and take a picture and post it but don't expect much.

The things in "What Is This ???????" are VERY interesting - and both are unusual. Very Very, Very unusual. A geologist would need to look at them to tell you for certain.

The egg shaped things could be of two different origins. They could be amphibian eggs. These are some of the most rare fossils around. BUT, in order for me to be convinced I would need to look at them and have one of my professor friends who is a vertebrate paleontologist look at it and he or she - depends on who is in the lab when I go by - would be on your doorstep within a week to document the location and everything. BUT, before I go that far I need much more clear, more detailed pictures under good lighting, from at least two different oblique directions,  to even make a tentative identification. If you live in Arkansas or eastern Kansas or southern Missouri, take it to Fayettville, poker university, school of geology - best in the state - and have a vertebrate paleontologist look at them. (ONLY after I get some better pictures and think it is worth the trip.) If you live in Missouri and Rolla is closer, take it there. I don't know if they have a paleontology department but it is the best geological school in the state with enough accumulated wisdom to make a very informed decision ( I think the name of the school has been changed to include technology , something something, but it is still the best place.)

The other thing these oblate structure could be - and more likely are - are oolites or pisolites. These are formed somewhat like pearls, but in the surf, not in a oyster shell. A lime-rich water is being agitated by waves in a surf zone and a film forms around the outside of a sand grain or piece of debris. After thousands of films are laid down they form a sphere or an ovoid - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolite for a better explanation. I am getting sleepy again and perhaps I can sleep some more.

I have NEVER seen oolites this big and I have been a geologist for 40 years. So they ae unusual. If they are not eggs I'll pay you to send me a several of the nice egg shaped ones! They would be well worth having for my collection. If they are eggs, they belong in a museum. (OR - perhaps an elegantly lighted display case in my home ????? )
 



 

 

Offline LadyCapt

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Re: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #4 on: 06/04/2008 13:44:56 »
Thanks so much for your time! I actually live 60 miles southeast of Rolla, and I have an appt there on Tuesday at a dermatologist. I will be glad to take more pics for you. I actually have several differnet pics of the "eggs" as I have several pieces. There are actually still more there, but I did not dig for fear of damaging them. Each layer of the eggs seems to be seperately fossilized. They are also fragile. The thing that caught my attention was three rocks that looked exactly alike, how often does that happen? Not ever before in my forty years of being a rock hound.
As for the unidentified pieces, the white one,(up top) appears to be some type of bone, and I have been told that the other one is some type of scraper used by the Osage Indians.
One very interesting thing is that all of these were found within a 200 feet of each other.
Another very interesting thing is that all of the "eggs" seem to be in different states of incubation. I have  two of these eggs things that are not broken apart the way these were, that seem to have fossils in them. One is a set of straight line looking somewhat like pin feathers and the other appears to have a minute leathery looking tail.
I will post more pics for you today, and if you think it is worth my time, please give me a name.
I have been a rock hound for almost forty years and I have some very interesting finds.
I also have a completely fossilized dirt dobber or wasp nest complete with little ones in it. I would be glad to take a pic of that as well.
Thanks so much for your time and expertise! ;D
 

Offline LadyCapt

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Re: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #5 on: 06/04/2008 13:49:06 »
OOps I just reread my post and wanted to clarify that all the "eggs" were found together. My point was that all the rocks you saw were found within 200 feet of each other. ::)
 

Offline JimBob

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Re: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #6 on: 06/04/2008 17:11:24 »
The "eggs" - leave in place all that you are able to leave and do not let these be destroyed by spring floods. I'm interested in more pictures, especially of the bluff from which these came and the surrounding sediments.

« Last Edit: 06/04/2008 23:51:02 by JimBob »
 

Offline daveshorts

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Re: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #7 on: 09/04/2008 10:42:39 »
Many of them look like some sort of flint, the ones on the bottom right, you may want to talk to an archaeologist about as the bottom one almost looks man made although saying that flint could just flake off like that.

Where did you find them?
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #8 on: 09/04/2008 10:51:36 »
I would definitely say your two bottom right hand screen ones are definetly arrow heads... I live on an indian hunting camp and over the years have recovered many arrow heads as those.. see hoe the edgers were shaped and come to a point!

The one above those to the rounder one with the hollowed out center I would say is 1/2 of a mortar and pestal.. spice and wheat..grinding tools.. is you go to where you found it and look closely around you may find its counter parts.. could be a round stone made to fit well inside the bowl or it may be more of a longer handled stone used to grind or pound..
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #9 on: 09/04/2008 10:55:27 »
small rock in middle could be part of the mortar set see the flanged sides could have been shaped to match the sides of the bowl.. see how it sits inside of the bowl.. it may have been used in a back and forth twisting action to grind .. while also taking on the flanged edges!
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #10 on: 09/04/2008 10:59:22 »
Big one looks as if something had fossilized into it.. like a snail.. at least to me.. it looks like a snail.

The two bigger ones look like the same material they made arrow heads out of!
 

Offline Make it Lady

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #11 on: 09/04/2008 23:30:52 »
Wow your finds look very exciting. Local acheaologists should definitely be contacted. I't looks to me like you may have had a human settlement near to you. I'm sure they would be very interested and helpful.
 

Offline torriblezone

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #12 on: 24/04/2008 20:02:41 »
My first post, hi all. Husband looked at the top post and said they were concretions. We both felt they were insufficiently uniform to be an egg deposit. He's the geo-man around the house and said the exact same type of concretions are found at McClure's Beach, near where we live in northern California. Again, greetings to the forum, glad to find an interesting spot on the web.
 

Offline benep

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #13 on: 25/04/2008 18:03:18 »
My first post, hi all. Husband looked at the top post and said they were concretions. We both felt they were insufficiently uniform to be an egg deposit. He's the geo-man around the house and said the exact same type of concretions are found at McClure's Beach, near where we live in northern California. Again, greetings to the forum, glad to find an interesting spot on the web.
welcome to our forum and thank you for your post  you taught me something new today^^
 

Offline JimBob

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #14 on: 25/04/2008 19:07:19 »
My first post, hi all. Husband looked at the top post and said they were concretions. We both felt they were insufficiently uniform to be an egg deposit. He's the geo-man around the house and said the exact same type of concretions are found at McClure's Beach, near where we live in northern California. Again, greetings to the forum, glad to find an interesting spot on the web.

WELCOME!  If hubby is a geologist he is VERY welcomed to get this section going more strongly.

I agree, they could be concretions but since thy occur in a predominant Devonian though Permian limestone-dolomite sequence that the chances that they are high energy oolites. As oolites are a special name for a concretion formed in a high energy environment, no-one is in the wrong ball-park about these egg-shaped things. I know of NO amphibian eggs ever found.
 

Offline torriblezone

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #15 on: 26/04/2008 00:58:15 »
Thanks so much for the welcome, guys. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply any professional affiliations on behalf of my husband, but he is an avid amateur. He felt that they were much too big for oolites, as you originally posted, and that they were concretions with possibly oolitic matrix - that you were right about the size thing, rare to be greater than pea-sized.

He'll never post here himself, luddite that he is, but thanks for putting up with the potentially tiresome third person references, etc.

Anyhow, we'll post some hopefully interesting photos, eventually, when my computer gets back from the shop ::). Thanks again.
 

Offline LadyCapt

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #16 on: 28/04/2008 13:52:09 »
Jim Bob,
Here are some more pics of the (oolites, pisolites and concretions) As you will see from these pics the nucleus is well over two inches long. You will also see some pics of the outer shell which you can see is very strangly shaped. All of these pieces were found together. Alot of them broke apart as I removed them from the clay bank. It appears as if each layer is individually fossilized.
I have also included a pic of a very strange looking rock that I found as well. It seems to have scales of some sort on it.
As you can see I'm no photographer!
« Last Edit: 28/04/2008 14:18:04 by LadyCapt »
 

Offline LadyCapt

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #17 on: 28/04/2008 13:58:43 »
More Pics
« Last Edit: 28/04/2008 14:14:47 by LadyCapt »
 

Offline LadyCapt

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #18 on: 28/04/2008 14:02:49 »
More "egg" pics.
« Last Edit: 28/04/2008 14:11:17 by LadyCapt »
 

Offline LadyCapt

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #19 on: 28/04/2008 14:06:51 »
Ok, this one is REALLY the strange rock one!
 

Offline LadyCapt

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #20 on: 28/04/2008 16:39:10 »
Since I have your fine minds whirling..whats this?
 

Offline LadyCapt

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #21 on: 28/04/2008 16:41:53 »
Or this??

 

Offline LadyCapt

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #22 on: 28/04/2008 16:48:36 »
Just a few more pics to keep the discussion open. Honestly they are far too big to be pisolites or olites. We have concretions here as well, but they tend to be sand filled and containing many other types of rock particles. They are never round and or smooth.

 

Offline Karen W.

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #23 on: 15/07/2008 02:15:25 »
Since I have your fine minds whirling..whats this?


I do not know but I have some just like it!
 

Offline RD

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #24 on: 15/07/2008 03:24:35 »
The concentric features resemble mud bubbles

« Last Edit: 15/07/2008 03:31:58 by RD »
 

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What Is This ??????? (3 Topics combined)
« Reply #24 on: 15/07/2008 03:24:35 »

 

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