# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: If I go back in time and kill my parents, will I die too?  (Read 8801 times)

#### another_someone

• Guest
##### If I go back in time and kill my parents, will I die too?
« Reply #25 on: 22/04/2008 05:22:14 »
are you saying im the devil? [:(!]

I hope this statement was not to be taken seriously, despite your 'angry' smiley?

my argument is that, assuming we could know and perceive everything, than everything would have a perceivable cause.

This sounds like something of a circular argument.  You seem to be saying that if we could know the cause of everything then everything must have a cause.  This is self evidently true, as is the converse argument, that if not everything has a cause, then we cannot possibly know the cause of everything.

as per my earlier argument, the effect of our orbit around the sun is from the cause of gravity.

I would suggest that this is convenient shorthand, but is not provably true.

What we know is that the equations for gravity can be used to predict the orbit of our motion about the Sun, but we can never prove that this is, nor that it is not, the actual cause of our orbit around the Sun.

my term for "cause" by the way, is something that generates an effect.

But cause and effect are merely perceptions.  This is particularly demonstrably true because there are situations where relativity predicts that the apparent order of events may appear to be different for one observer than for another observer, and in that case, how can you determine cause and effect?

#### science_guy

• Hero Member
• Posts: 701
• I'm right there... inside neilep's head!
##### If I go back in time and kill my parents, will I die too?
« Reply #26 on: 23/04/2008 05:00:00 »
no, it wasn't taken seriously

Quote
This sounds like something of a circular argument.  You seem to be saying that if we could know the cause of everything then everything must have a cause.  This is self evidently true, as is the converse argument, that if not everything has a cause, then we cannot possibly know the cause of everything.
im not saying if we know the cause of everything, I am suggesting that if nothing is beyond our perception, then we could perceive a cause for everything.
Quote
I would suggest that this is convenient shorthand, but is not provably true.

What we know is that the equations for gravity can be used to predict the orbit of our motion about the Sun, but we can never prove that this is, nor that it is not, the actual cause of our orbit around the Sun.
while I was giving an example, it was a poor one for this situation.  the quantum example i've given is more approiate for what I am saying.
Quote
But cause and effect are merely perceptions.  This is particularly demonstrably true because there are situations where relativity predicts that the apparent order of events may appear to be different for one observer than for another observer, and in that case, how can you determine cause and effect?
as a certain interpretation, yes, causes and effects are merely perceptions.  but, for lack of a better word (English is so limited...) I must use them.  I am saying that everything must have happened as a result of something else happening.  Perhaps more than one cause, or more than one effect, perhaps causes and effects in differing timelines.

an anology could be given that the big bang was the rock that was dropped into the water, and everything that has been happening are millions upon millions of ripples, which create more ripples, and so on.

#### bitistoll

• First timers
• Posts: 8
##### If I go back in time and kill my parents, will I die too?
« Reply #27 on: 27/04/2008 11:20:10 »
this is a quicky, just to draw the three threads I started together, because that makes sense.  The relevant post is in the thread titled: how do we know the laws of physics are really laws.... , posted under the alias rainwildman

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### If I go back in time and kill my parents, will I die too?
« Reply #27 on: 27/04/2008 11:20:10 »

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