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Author Topic: Golden sun block. Coolent.  (Read 11857 times)

Offline Titanscape

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« on: 19/10/2004 18:19:09 »
I was dreaming and came up with the idea of an alloy, ie a mix of gold and mercury that is soft but not liquid in the suns rays outside the atmosphere. Just the right colour and composition keeping alot of ductility, gold's quality. It would be made into a disc about 1 metre diameter and shaped so that after rapid rotation it would continue to expand and expand without breaking holes in itself.

It would be placed by rocket in a point between the Earth and sun say 400, 000 km away. In a rocket clasp that spins it and then releases it by jetisoning itself away. The objective, to create a temporary sheild from the suns rays to cool the Earth by casting a shadow. Later the solar wind would blow it in a collision with the Earth. Also it could be used on one hemisphere only.

What do you think?

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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #1 on: 20/10/2004 04:27:34 »
I think you have a talent for coming up with some strange ideas. This sunshade would have to be the size of the moon to eclipse the sun for even a few square miles on the earth. I haven't bothered to try and calculate how much gold you would waste doing such a thing, because I know it is way too much.
 

Offline Raedon

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Re: Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #2 on: 20/10/2004 04:35:10 »
Better to just SLAM greenhouse gasses into the Earth to be absorbed into limestone.

If anything should go into space it should be a craft that uses the Earth's magnetic force and the lack of friction to create power without using resources or creating waste.


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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #3 on: 20/10/2004 18:04:01 »
This is about greenhouse gasses? Then you are right, they need to be incorporated into the earth. AS it turns out, atmospheric CO2 can be burned into carbonate form, and the reaction is exo-thermic. There has been atleast one proposal to do this, as a power generation device. I could probably find the original reference for you, if you are really interested.

An earthly sunshade is just not a good idea, even if it were practical. We need the sunshine.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #4 on: 21/10/2004 11:37:39 »
The latest Guiness World Records book reports that gold is the most ductile element and that just 1oz can be drawn to 43 miles (69km)

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Offline Ultima

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Re: Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #5 on: 21/10/2004 17:49:23 »
Plus with the whole Earths magnetic field thing.... Im sure conservation of energy would have something to do with stopping that??? wouldn't the orbit degrade or something..? and how would you get all that energy back down to earth?

wOw the world spins?
 

Offline Titanscape

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Re: Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #6 on: 21/10/2004 19:37:56 »
Three quarters of a ton of the alloy would rotate and so fast as to stretch it out alot before the sun. Then it would be blown away. Into the Earth. One bar of gold can be stretched right around the earth.

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Offline Raedon

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Re: Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #7 on: 22/10/2004 04:44:06 »
quote:
Originally posted by Ultima

Plus with the whole Earths magnetic field thing.... Im sure conservation of energy would have something to do with stopping that??? wouldn't the orbit degrade or something..? and how would you get all that energy back down to earth?

wOw the world spins?



orbit in the field.. opposite direction. long wires that circle the planet.

back to earth? Microwaves or a orbital elivator.. you know, a line to space too the orbitor.  Why even ask a question that is just logical. :)


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Offline Ylide

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Re: Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #8 on: 23/10/2004 02:16:29 »
quote:
Originally posted by gsmollin

This is about greenhouse gasses? Then you are right, they need to be incorporated into the earth. AS it turns out, atmospheric CO2 can be burned into carbonate form, and the reaction is exo-thermic. There has been atleast one proposal to do this, as a power generation device. I could probably find the original reference for you, if you are really interested.



Got a link to this process?  What cation is present to bind the carbonate?  And to be exothermic...that's a hell of an energy barrier to overcome to make the reaction go, there must be some catalyst at work there.

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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #9 on: 23/10/2004 04:14:37 »
"Direct mineral carbonation has been investigated as a process to convert gaseous CO2 into a geologically
stable, solid final form. The process utilizes a solution of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), sodium chloride
(NaCl), and water, mixed with a mineral reactant, such as olivine (Mg2SiO4) or serpentine [Mg3Si2O5(OH)4].
Carbon dioxide is dissolved into this slurry, by diffusion through the surface and gas dispersion within the
aqueous phase. The process includes dissolution of the mineral and precipitation of magnesium carbonate
(MgCO3) in a single unit operation. Optimum results have been achieved using heat pretreated serpentine
feed material, with a surface area of roughly 19 m2 per gram, and high partial pressure of CO2 (PCO2).
Specific conditions include: 155C; PCO2=185 atm; 15% solids. Under these conditions, 78% stoichiometric
conversion of the silicate to the carbonate was achieved in 30 minutes. Studies suggest that the mineral
dissolution rate is primarily surface controlled, while the carbonate precipitation rate is primarily dependent on
the bicarbonate concentration of the slurry. Current studies include further examination of the reaction
pathways, and an evaluation of the resource potential for the magnesium silicate reactant, particularly olivine.
Additional studies include the examination of various pretreatment options, the development of a continuous
flow reactor, and an evaluation of the economic feasibility of the process."

http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/01/carbon_seq/6c2.pdf

If you Google on "carbon dioxide sequestration" you should get any number of interesting references.
 

Offline Titanscape

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #10 on: 03/02/2007 13:03:10 »
A sun shield of golden alloy could temporarily cover a pole or both in their winters. Environmental impact studies would need be done for people's safety...

I am sure it is cheaper than making thousands of plants to filter the whole of the earth's vast atmosphere through! It would take decades to build them and they would take decades to filter the whole atmoshere after! All the while cars... still produce more CO2.

Also remember, plants and algae need CO2. They produce Oxygen for us and Carbon fruits. We don't want to lose the vast resource of Carbon or some Oxygen permanently.

And further, the CO2 problem comes from not 200 years of industry, but from really more like the last 7 months of broken equilibrium, plants verses cars and fossil fuel power palnts. Stop the latter for a few months, and we are righted again, as before the industrial era.

It is a matter of keeping equilibrium, not a once over mass filtration.

There can be a cheap make reliable design of rocket made, maybe one using the earth's atmosphere for part of it's fuel.

The shield could be replaced every 3 weeks.

At a great distance it could block a fair 17% of the sunshine, so we get what we need but have cooler days, not necessarily just 90% of the sunshine over the arctic circle for example.
« Last Edit: 03/02/2007 13:21:36 by Titanscape »
 

Offline syhprum

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #11 on: 03/02/2007 17:54:14 »
I think as the planet hots up and many parts of the world become un-inhabitable nuclear war will break out as the more military powerful countries try to preserve the best bits for themselves,
the resulting smoke and dust will have a cooling effect and perhaps 5% of the present population will survive to make a fresh start
 

Offline Titanscape

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #12 on: 04/02/2007 11:14:13 »
If we don't act in a just a year or two, looking ahead ten years, the south pole will melt, but it is a rocky land mass, and even if things cool again twelve years from now, it would take like a hundred years for it to be covered again in as much water as now.
 

lyner

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #13 on: 08/02/2007 15:42:29 »
Putting huge structures up in space is a very costly solution and - let's face it - we just couldn't do it at the moment.
Keeping an object  on station in space would require active control and fuel because its orbit time would be different from that of Earth. It would have to be rigid in order to do this. How many times would we have to replace it? Would it be a one shot solution?
Also, because we are so far from the Sun, its shadow would only be the same size as the object itself, so there is no advantage in putting it 'up there'.
I would have thought that the cheapest and most practical solution, apart from just  cutting down on energy use in general, would be to use all this gold foil  (or even white paint!) to reflect large amounts of sunlight from equatorial  regions. This could be done a bit at a time and would not take any significant energy to transport. Neither would it need energy to keep it on station. Buck Rogers solutions are all very fine but let's look to third-world   technology first. 
There are large regions of desert which we could cover  selectively without losing food production or the carbon fixing due to photosynthesis by local plants. I understood that the white polar caps reflect significant amounts of energy away and, as they are diminishing, their effect is decreasing alarmingly. We can take a lesson form this.
It may even be possible to grow plants above the reflector; a sort of shiny 'mulch' in all our gardens and fields. I think I'll go out in the garden with the kitchen foil today and do my bit. . .
 

Offline Titanscape

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #14 on: 09/02/2007 14:14:03 »
My idea is to make a disc of mostly gold and some mercury, and either between the moon and earth, for an experiment, or beyond the lunar orbit, to spin it extremely fast and release it before the sun to cast a shadow on the earth, so it would orbit the sun. If it is beyond the moon. And it if shaped right would expand hopefully to Lunar diameter and block 5-10% of the solar heat energy.

The disc would be shaped perfect circle, no holes, thick edges, thining toward the centre yet a bulge in the centre for the gold to be drawn out from there.

Some speculate that the very slow heatwaves have healing qualities.

Painting, maybe the Saharah is a good idea.
« Last Edit: 09/02/2007 14:17:29 by Titanscape »
 

Offline lightarrow

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #15 on: 09/02/2007 17:36:08 »
My idea is to make a disc of mostly gold and some mercury, and either between the moon and earth, for an experiment, or beyond the lunar orbit, to spin it extremely fast and release it before the sun to cast a shadow on the earth, so it would orbit the sun. If it is beyond the moon. And it if shaped right would expand hopefully to Lunar diameter...
...if we had 9.5 million tons of gold (and to put in orbit!) for this.
Moon's radius ≈ 1740 km --> A = πR2--> Moon's area ≈ 9.5 millions km2.
According to wikipedia: 1 gram of gold can be flatten to 1m2--> 1 ton of gold = 1km2.
« Last Edit: 09/02/2007 17:45:16 by lightarrow »
 

Offline syhprum

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #16 on: 10/02/2007 00:09:27 »
If we really wanted to put up something reflective to reduce the in sonlation the best thing would be SO2 there is good evidence for instance the volcanic eruption of 1816 that this has a cooling effect and it finds it own way into orbit.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #17 on: 10/02/2007 16:36:14 »
Just a thought; if we did manage to put a big sunshade between us and the sun it would be acted on by radiation pressure and the solar wind. The effects of these would be to crash it into the earth again.
The simple biggest problem is the size of the sheild you would need. Sorry, but this idea is a bit of a non-starter.
 

Offline Titanscape

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #18 on: 11/02/2007 13:22:33 »
I thought gold and maybe the alloy was more ductile than that.

If a number of them were placed just over the south pole they could orbit for a time, then fall onto the atmosphere and remain there over the gas for a time. Gold is poisonous. But over a large area, perhaps accepatble. For the Penguins.

It is an emergency, once Antarctica is plain rock again, the sea will not recede for decades and decades.

http://www.gold.org/discover/sci_indu/properties/
I ounce into 80 km wire, 5 microns diameter.

http://www.northernorion.com/s/Gold.asp?ReportID=95608

http://www.marthamine.co.nz/gold_noble.html

When thinest, it is translucent.

Stretching, not beating with regards to the disc.

I think though the high melting point of gold is a problem, also in conjunction with how much mercury is needed in the alloy and the rotation velocity of the disc, then the retainment of ductility.

How much would direct solar rays heat a silvery gold alloy too?

This is someone else's idea: http://globalwarming.enviroweb.org/dosomething/technofixes/technofix_mirrors.html

Perhaps gold could be stretched and assembled in this project? Perhaps Lithium Hydride plates and maybe alfoil is better?

« Last Edit: 11/02/2007 14:12:23 by Titanscape »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #19 on: 11/02/2007 16:13:01 »
Do you have any idea what it costs to launch something into space?
 

paul.fr

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #20 on: 11/02/2007 17:45:21 »
Do you have any idea what it costs to launch something into space?

It depends on weight, and what you mean by space.. you can always write to NASA and ask for your name to be put on a future mission. the inscribe your name on satellites, etc with lazer. it costs nothing and some alien may think you are worth a visit!
 

paul.fr

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #21 on: 11/02/2007 17:53:17 »
oops, memory overload they put your name on a CD and send it with the mission. You also get a certificate
 

Offline lightarrow

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #22 on: 11/02/2007 20:32:48 »
I thought gold and maybe the alloy was more ductile than that.
The correct term is "malleability", which is the ability to be stretched in a big foil, while "ductility" means the ability to be stretched in a long thread.
As I told you, I think it won't be possible to send in space such huge amounts of Gold. I think it could be better to put in orbit a great amount of tiny aluminum made metallic foils (like the common aluminum powder for metallized painting, but even thinner). It wouldn't be as efficient as a unique gold foil, but it surely would be more cheap and more stable and more lasting.
Ok, now that I have written the only idea which will save the world, I can go to do something else. Bye!  ;)
 

Offline Hadrian

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #23 on: 11/02/2007 20:43:30 »
After reading all this topic I just wonder what the effect would be, if all spent all as much energy on changing the things we each do that hurt our planet, as we do on dreaming up way to avoid actually doing anything personally to make a deference.
 

Offline Titanscape

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
« Reply #24 on: 12/02/2007 12:11:02 »
A very simple solution taking decades to work however is replanting the Amazon. And replanting the Sahara perhaps. Israel has the technology.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2007 12:13:31 by Titanscape »
 

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Golden sun block. Coolent.
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