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Author Topic: What existed before the Big Bang?  (Read 60768 times)

Offline TECHFACTOR

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #75 on: 27/12/2008 03:54:17 »
"My Two Cents":I believe that somewhere out there is A even bigger universe except instead of galaxies floating in A sea of dark matter;there is A multitude of dimensions floating in A sea of gravity...And sometime in our distant past one of these dimensions bumped into ours causing A exchange of materials that exploded into our dimension sending matter into A antimatter environment;BAM THE BIG BANG!!! "Just an opinion."The truth is that nobody knows the answer too this question and probably never will. Study the facts adopt A hypothesis that you feel most comfortable with and that is the answer; or until someone proves other wise.(If the universe had never spawned life too look to the stars and wonder? Would it really exist???)TECHFACTOR:OUT 
 

Offline Bikerman

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #76 on: 27/12/2008 03:58:57 »
This sounds like a confused version of m-theory.
 

Offline TECHFACTOR

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« Reply #77 on: 27/12/2008 04:21:11 »
 Bikerman: Can you tell me more about this M-theory???TECHFACTOR:OUT 
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #78 on: 27/12/2008 09:10:12 »
M-theory proposes that strings are 1-dimensional slices of a 2-dimensional membrane vibrating in an 11-dimensional space. It was formulated by Ed Witten (brainy bugger, him) & Petr Horava (who kept Witten in Czech  :P ) in an attempt to bring together the 5 main versions of string theory. To make matters a bit more complicated (well, he - Witten - wouldn't seem so brainy if people could understand him) he said that 11-dimensional M-theory is equivalent to 10-dimensional Heterotic string theory. Now, when a brainy bloke like Ed Witten says that 11 dimensions are equivalent to 10 dimensions, mere mortals such as I gasp "WTF!"  [:0] and head for the tequila.

However, if you have a brain the size of a planet you could try reading this
« Last Edit: 27/12/2008 09:18:57 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline TECHFACTOR

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #79 on: 27/12/2008 17:10:28 »
Thanks Doc. Your right I cannot rap my brain around this subject. Bikerman this is A personal theory of A liquid universe I have; which is something I can rap my brain around. No matter how preposterous it may sound.I don't have know where near the education of some of the patrons on this forum.But besides learning A few things;I hope I can bring A lighter side to some of the hardcore scientific babble I have read here and maybe make A little sense of some of this for us educationally challenged.Thanks and keep the babble coming!TECHFACTOR:OUT     
 

Offline socratus

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #80 on: 27/12/2008 17:25:58 »
"My Two Cents":I believe that somewhere out there is A even bigger universe except instead of galaxies floating in A sea of dark matter;there is A multitude of dimensions floating in A sea of gravity...And sometime in our distant past one of these dimensions bumped into ours causing A exchange of materials that exploded into our dimension sending matter into A antimatter environment;BAM THE BIG BANG!!! "Just an opinion."The truth is that nobody knows the answer too this question and probably never will. Study the facts adopt A hypothesis that you feel most comfortable with and that is the answer; or until someone proves other wise.(If the universe had never spawned life too look to the stars and wonder? Would it really exist???)TECHFACTOR:OUT 
============================
Dark energy may be vacuum
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/uoc-dem011607.php


 

Offline TECHFACTOR

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« Reply #81 on: 27/12/2008 19:21:21 »
I agree with that assessment;but A Vacuum to where? TECHFACTOR:confused
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #82 on: 27/12/2008 20:14:34 »
Everything has to come from somewhere. If you can believe according to the big bang that nothing existed before time and space, then this nothingness turns out to be everything ever needed to create reality as we can see it.
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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« Reply #83 on: 27/12/2008 20:18:54 »
I agree with that assessment;but A Vacuum to where? TECHFACTOR:confused

I've not read the artical, but there was some speculation that dark energy could reside on of the many dimensions of string theory vacuum, with itself having 11 dimensions in all, 26 maximal dimensions for bosonic theory.
 

Offline nemanja

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #84 on: 28/12/2008 19:45:54 »
I am sorry for my English (it is not very well), but I have heard that it is not correctly to ask what happend before Big Bang, because it is not define time in that "period", because with Big Bang space and time together were created, it is just like to ask what like is on the temperature at minuse 274 or minus 300 degree Celsius
 

Offline Bikerman

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #85 on: 28/12/2008 19:50:12 »
I am sorry for my English (it is not very well), but I have heard that it is not correctly to ask what happend before Big Bang, because it is not define time in that "period", because with Big Bang space and time together were created, it is just like to ask what like is on the temperature at minuse 274 or minus 300 degree Celsius
Your English may not be perfect but I think it is certainly fit for purpose, since I understand your point very well.
Yes, the conventional picture is that time and space both came into existence at the 'instant' of the Big Bang. Some people disagree (google Neil Turok, for example) and string theory appears to offer the possibility that time is actually 'eternal'. This view is, however, pretty speculative and many physicists disagree with it. This is, of course, the beauty of science - it progresses and one day, hopefully, we might have an answer.
 

Offline nemanja

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #86 on: 28/12/2008 20:06:49 »
(I am on first year of faculty of physical electronics,where I can't learn strings ),and I want  to learn theory of superstrings, so could someone tell me what math(areas like vectors, tensors...) is needed to be known for understanding of this theory?
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #87 on: 29/12/2008 10:19:16 »
nemanja.   Start by reading "The Road To Reality"  by Roger Penrose. This is the most readable maths textbook I know and I have read it through from cover to cover Try to do some of the exercises in that and if you really feel that you can take it further follow up some of the other books suggested.

Be sure to start at the very beginning and make sure that you fully understand every stage before going on to the next.  The biggest problem with mathematics is missing out a critical stage of understanding which then renders the rest of limited worth.

At what level is your current mathematical understanding?

To follow up your previous question.  The big bang model derives from projecting the observable history of the universe back before the period where the cosmic microwave background originated.  This model works well right back to our limits of observation in high energy physics experiments however it is bound to reach the limits at some point. 

The most fundamental properties of an understandable universe are the conservation of angular momentum and the conservation of energy and these imply that there must always have been something so to extend the big bang back to a mathematical singularity is probably wrong.

Recent workings with loop quantum gravity (look this up on Google) suggest going backwards in time you do reach a peak density before which the universe must have expanded.  So it appears likely that our big bang originated in a big crunch.  The logical problem is that it seems highly likely that our universe does not end in a big crunch.  But it does create a lot of little crunches in the form of black holes.  Also conditions in our universe seem finely balanced to create just about as many black holes as possible (look up Lee Smolin Life in the Cosmos)  The most probable result is our little crunches are someone else's big bangs.  but theres a fair bit of working to do before that can be proved adequately.
« Last Edit: 29/12/2008 10:36:19 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline Mr. Scientist

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #88 on: 29/12/2008 11:41:48 »
(I am on first year of faculty of physical electronics,where I can't learn strings ),and I want  to learn theory of superstrings, so could someone tell me what math(areas like vectors, tensors...) is needed to be known for understanding of this theory?

A great deal of math is needed to understand this rather complicated theory.
 

Offline nemanja

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« Reply #89 on: 29/12/2008 15:34:40 »
Answer to Soul Surfer
Mine current knowledge of math is differential calculus and linear algebra from faculty, but from high school I know integrals, analytic geometry, complex numbers...
So I have a lot of things to learn :)
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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What existed before the Big Bang?
« Reply #90 on: 29/12/2008 17:17:29 »
Thats a good start

"The road ro reality" will take you right up to areas of mathematics needed to understand string theory and quantum gravity but remember to start the book from the very beginning there are probably theorems about things as basic as numbers numbers that you don't know about.
« Last Edit: 29/12/2008 17:23:48 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline Bikerman

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« Reply #91 on: 29/12/2008 18:53:34 »
I endorse the recommendation. Road to Reality is a must read if you want to get into this stuff. Having said that, I'm still stuck at Chapter 20 - I must pick it up again soon :-)
 

Offline demadone

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« Reply #92 on: 21/01/2009 09:09:31 »
Speaking of religion. There is a brilliant passage in the book of Isaiah. It says 'due to God's abundance in dynamic energy everything was created.'
E=mc2 in other words. SO energy came first and then was made into matter.
 

Offline demadone

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« Reply #93 on: 21/01/2009 09:37:12 »
I always thought dark energy is a property of a vacuum. My theory is that objects stop accelerating only if they are in a non-vacuum medium or under gravity.
In a vacuum complete absence of gravity imposing objects, a vacuum can actually allow an acceleration to be infinite. Only a derivative of the derivative of that acceleration is the speed of the expanding universe. The limit is the speed of light at which matter disintegrates to form a black hole.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #94 on: 21/01/2009 12:49:45 »
There's some really heavy stuff in this thread. It's a good read. The thing that strikes me is everyone seems to assume that space and time came into existence with the Big Bang. I don't see the need for that. A Big Bang could have sprung up within a universe in which space and time already existed.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #95 on: 21/01/2009 13:46:18 »
Has anyone seen this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7440217.stm

The scientists concerned think there may be a detetable signature in the CMBR from before the Big Bang.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #96 on: 21/01/2009 14:20:07 »
Has anyone seen this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7440217.stm

The scientists concerned think there may be a detetable signature in the CMBR from before the Big Bang.
Thanks for the link; I have it bookmarked. There is something that has always troubled me about the CMBR. Before it was discovered, Eddington and group calculated that space debris would be heated by starlight to about 4 degrees K. The Big Bang advocates were saying that Big Bang remnants should produce about 20 degrees K. Then we discovered the CMBR to be about 4 degrees K. How did it suddenly become true that the CMBR supported the Big Bang theory?
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #97 on: 21/01/2009 16:50:28 »
There were a lot of estimates of the CMBR temperature ranging from 0.75K (Walther Nernst, 1938) to 50K (George Gamow, 1946). After Wilson & Penzias discovered the CMBR in 1965, scientists quickly grabbed their sliderules and re-worked their calculations.
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #98 on: 21/01/2009 18:26:04 »
There were a lot of estimates of the CMBR temperature ranging from 0.75K (Walther Nernst, 1938) to 50K (George Gamow, 1946). After Wilson & Penzias discovered the CMBR in 1965, scientists quickly grabbed their sliderules and re-worked their calculations.
Yep; and forgot about Eddington's estimates.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #99 on: 21/01/2009 18:45:17 »
Why are you singling out Eddington's estimate?
 

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