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Author Topic: What about the women who have Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome (POIS)?  (Read 34987 times)

Offline girlwind

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I can't possibly be the only woman who has this syndrome? I see only men chatting on this website, and in my google search I didn't
find any POIS referring to women. But I must say that it comes as a relief to hear that there is a name for this bizarre post-orgasmic
exhaustion, and that other people are also attempting to find answers and remedies. I have had many of the symptoms described here
after engaging in orgasmic sex--the physical, mental and mood exhaustion, brain fog and flu-like symptoms that last for 3-10 days
after the "event."

For me this all started with a bigger problem back 30 years ago, when I collapsed with Chronic Fatigue Immune Deficiency Syndrome,
(CFIDS) also known as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Since then, the fatigue I feel after orgasm has not gone away, despite the fact that
my overall health has generally improved. Some of you have addressed the issue of neurotransmitters, as well as the auto-immune
part of the equation, both of which are KEY factors in dealing with CFIDS, so this is something that I have some experience with.

One thing that has helped me to recover from the overall exhaustion of CFIDS, and to somewhat remedy the orgasmic exhaustion has
been adrenal boosting herbal remedies and vitamins, like Siberian ginseng, schizandra, and large doses of pantothenic acid (up to
5000 mg) in 1000 mg doses, spread out throughout the day with 2000 mg. of Vitamin C per pop. Also important has been managing
stress and avoiding anything close to burn-out, which drains the adrenals and makes the fatigue worse. And getting deep sleep has
been really important too. The amino acid L-Tryptopan has been most beneficial for sleep, and since it is a precursor for serotonin
production, this goes back to the issue of improved neurotransmitter availability in assisting overall recovery from fatigue. Repairing
adrenal exhaustion also has helped my immune system functioning, as there is a direct link between being overly tired/drained and
the tendency to become ill with colds and flus.

But unfortunately, the best remedy has been to omit the orgasm from my sexual repertoire. Which truly sucks. Many women do not
even have orgasms, and so it feels disappointing to forgo what happens naturally for the sake of my overall health. Although I have
noticed over the years, that when I repress the urge to cum for too long, my body will rebel against this eventually and give me an
orgasmic dream in compensation to the enforced repression.

Still, my main question has to do women with this syndrome... How many other woman out there have this?  Is POIS mostly a male
syndrome? Or are many women in the dark about this, as I was, until I found this website?  What are the stats on this? Has anyone
taken the time to do research? And where are they?

<Mod Edit - Changed the title so this will turn up on a POIS search>
« Last Edit: 23/05/2008 18:34:30 by BenV »


 

Offline jamie_wood888

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Ive not heard of women geting pois, however i have read that women and men expell masses of energy during orgasm. This energy then fatigues the body until its replemished, so much so that taoists beleive it takes years of your life.  Apparently a period has the same effect in that it weakens the body like an oragsm. Im not sure on all the authenticity of taiosts but alot seems to make u go ahah. whether its true in practice it would be worth a few opinions.
 

Offline mallory

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I am so glad to have found this... .trust me you are not the only woman with this problem!  I am 27 and have been experiencing the very same problem for the last few years.  During and immediately after orgasm, from intercourse or masturbation, I get  body and joint aches, neck stiffness, throbbing headache and nausea. This also happens when I perform oral sex on my husband, that does not result in an orgasm on my end.   It's the worst for several hours but the flu like symptoms will last for days. I have been gluten and dairy free for 4 years now, so it isn't allergies.  I have recently been diagnosed with fibromyalgia  and a tentative  MS dx, but still need a spinal tap.  Do you have any other illness, nerve pain, or odd symptoms..... do you get the same feeling with intense exercise?  I exercise frequently but get a similar headache only when I go running for some reason.. minus the flu symptoms though.  I have a normal body weight and BMI, and have normal blood pressure and blood work.  My doc has be taking 400 mg of riboflavin daily, which is apparently for migraines, although I never really get headaches at any other time
« Last Edit: 07/06/2008 22:41:19 by mallory »
 

Offline dealande

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I am a female in my mid 30s and I've begun having "hangovers" from masterbation recently. I get tiredness for 1-3 days, feelings of mild anxiety, unreality/lack of concentration and headache and sometimes loss of appetite...I just generally feel "down". I have experimented several times with stopping for weeks and starting up again and it seems linked to orgasm and nothing else. I have never had any difficulty with this before so I'm not sure why I would suddenly develop a psychological problem with sex. I have had symptoms of CFS which my sister is diagnosed with, and suffered a head injury last year in a car accident. I understand that many people develop CFS or have it worsen after being injured or traumatized in some way.

Mallory, if you are getting these problems also from oral sex, it may not be POIS or may be something in addition to POIS. POIS occurs post-orgasm, so it should not happen after you don't have one. There is a condition that causes headaches and tiredness/fatigue that can be excaserbated by any akward head/neck positions (such as occur during oral sex particularly), it is caused by the cerebellar tonsils at the back of your brain slipping downward through the skull into the spinal area and getting pressure, especially from certain head positions. Also, TMJD Temperomandibular Joint Disorder, can cause headaches and oral sex can make it worse.
 

Offline tom2009

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Has anyone ever tried XTC or Cocaine? You see for some people the days after usage are fine, however there comes a point (for some it's after the first time they take it) that you end up in some sort of a crash, with a lot of the symptoms of pois. Especially the after effect of cocaine is very interesting, since cocaine, like sex/orgasm, heavily stimulates the mesolimbic dopamine circuitry in the brain. The neurotransmitters need to replenish in order to feel normal again, exhaustion, tremors, difficulty concentrating etc are normal for dopamine/serotonine lows. So far the purely physical aspects.

I too recognize many of the pois syndromes, and the solution has been abstinence from the classical form of orgasm. Believe me this has been difficult, quiting with certain behavioural patterns definetely feels like going through detox!! with the same effects; headache/insomnia/exhaustion/tremmers/ concentration disorder etc. I am a trained psychologist/sexologist and the following suggestion might sound strange since it lies outside of our conventional scientific paradigm, but the taoists of china/ the buddhists/ the gnostic church/ and the tantrists all consider sexual energy as our life force!! And sex is fine/ you can have as much sex as you like preferably with an opposite sex partner since it balances the energies, however 'the secret' of enourmous amounts of energy lie in conservation of sexual energy instead of throwing it away in a few spasms during a 'normal' ejaculation orgasm. I realize that this is for many people difficult to follow and perhaps sounds really rediculous, and it hasn't been scientifically established that you live longer if you change your orgasm (more about this in the recommended readings) but it works! (i also know of many women who followed the same kind of training with life changing results). 

However the most difficult part is changing habits, and changing the way your lovemaking looks like from a main focus on coitus and 'normal' (clitoral)orgasm towards meditative sex (which for many people may sound boring, but believe me, once you have experienced these bodily orgasms where you conserve and build an energy supply, then you will never go back to the 'old' habits. These books go against our western model, but for me personally as well as in my practice as psychologist/sexologist they are of great value.

The multi orgasmic man
mantak chia and douglas abrams

The multi orgasmic woman
mantak chia and rachel carlton abrams

However these are 'advanced' books in the sense that you can really achieve results if you find personal training in these field (healing toa). And they operate very close to the orgasmreflex so it might be difficult to hold back and go beyond the point of no return.

As a basis one could perhaps best start with

Eros, consciousness and kundalini
Stuart Sovatsky

This follows the white tantric path (no ejacualation/ conventional orgasm) and can be used to return to a baseline of a transformation of sexual habits. To help achieve a zero baseline you can also find assistence in the SLAA community (sex and love addict anonymous) or any group that focuses on abstinence of certain aspects of your sexuality. 'Let me be clear i am not a supporter of a repressed moral of sexuality, on the contrary, i am trying to offer handhelds to chanal your sexual 'energy' in a healthy energising way. I am not trying to convince anybody because i have been following this path for almost five years and i know it works, it completely changed my life. I hope it can work for some of you as well.

Another interesting book
Don't call it love
Patrick Carnes
and
Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous
augustine fellowship.

Taoist secrets of Love, Cultivating Male Sexual Energy
Mantak Chia Michael Winn

(there is also one on female sexual energy.

You can only work with these models if you are openminded towards concepts of the energetic body/meditation and yoga. I find this docu very interesting

newbielink:http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-250123575095449181&ei=-pCWSpztMsfJ-AbngbmhBw&q=secret+gate+to+the+garden+of+eden&hl=nl [nonactive]

however it's far! from mainstream western theory. For me the most important part is that it works, not where the theory comes from...
Kind regards
Tom
 

Offline lovelife28

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I thought I was crazy until I found this forum! I'm a 29 year old female and I have been suffering with this condition since I was 27. Within thirty minutes after orgasm I have the following symptoms and they usually last two days.
Headache (not throbbing)
Neck stiffness
dizziness
off balance
extreme fatigue
feel like I need to lay down,very hard to stay up
brain fog
Feeling out of it
sometimes slight nausia
My symptoms are bad enough to keep me in bed for two days. I'm probably forgeting some of the symptoms but these are the worst ones. It happens every single time I have orgasm. I also get the same kind of headaches after a high paced workout. My neurologist just doesn't seem to take this seriously and told me to take IBprophen which doesnt help at all.
I saw that someone mentioned that this started when they got CFS and that is exactly what happend to me. When I was 25 I got MONO and that turned to CFS so they say anyway I was bedridden for two years, I'm now 29 and almost back to my old self but this POIS has been going on for two years. I never had the orgasm problems before getting ill so it must be linked.
Other than these problems I'm in great shape. I eat healthy. I'm not sure what to do besides stop having sex which I pretty much have and don't work out to hard :(

I thought I should mention that I take Xanax for anxiety.
.25 x 3 a day
« Last Edit: 21/02/2011 18:51:52 by lovelife28 »
 

Offline aWife

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Hello,

I am a 32-year old girl from Ukraine, living in Germany. I have the symptoms described throughout this thread for about 10 years, and I understand they are most commonly described and researched for men. Until very recently I was not aware that other people also suffer from this and there is actually a name for it.

Years ago I underwent some tests and analysis related to my symptoms in Ukraine, but nothing helpful was found.

I was wondering if anybody knows about research or doctors focusing on women suffering from POIS?

Specifically I also wanted to ask if there is any information available on whether POIS is likely to be inherited? My husband and I are planning to have children and this causes great concern to me.

Many thanks to everybody who has contributed to this thread so far and provided valuable information. I would appreciate any advice concerning my situation.

Tatyana
 

Offline Giggly

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I truly thought I was the only woman alive experiencing this.  For me, this all started AFTER menopause (I'm 53) and no longer had to take birth control pills (I was on those for 20+ years).  I thought maybe those two things combined were causing this.  After intercourse, I would feel nauseous, dizzy, stuffy nose, sneezing.  This lasts for 4-6 hours.  I thought I was going crazy.  I read somewhere that taking Benadryl 30 minutes before intimacy would help, and it does, but just a bit.  Sure would like to find out more info. on this subject for women.
 

Online puppypower

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Men have all types of energy, enthusiasm and even clever spontaneous verbal bull, when they are in the mood for sex. These dynamics , which are collective to men, is caused by the hormones, connected to sperm production, in light of brain activity; personality firmware. As the sperm regenerate and the related hormones built, men become driven to have sex. Their minds can become 1-D ;lower brain.

Once the sperm is discharged, the male energy level drops and their mind is not thinking the same way. Their gal may want to cuttle, but the guy wants to take a nap or leave. Some men may be polite, but in his mind, he feels different things.

This change of internal behavior is the same thing, you are discussing with respect to women, but it is more short term when it comes to men. The males body regenerates its sperm and hormones within hours or days. When the sperm is ready to go, their hormonal energy returns and the mind changes again.

Women are different in that they have a monthly cycle. It is very possible, that the propaganda that men and women are the same, is leading women to deplete themselves, while expecting the daily renewal of hormones of the men. The female body is on a monthly cycle and needs more time to build those hormones up. The symptoms many are presenting, are things you get when exhausted.

In the olden days, sex was sort of taboo for many of the ladies. They would go through the motions, in marriage; duty, while having religious induced repressions, from their youth. In this cases, the olden days women were the opposite of deplete, with tons of energy. They could take care of 8 children, go to the river to do laundry, while doing a garden and taking care of the animals. In this case, their hormonal levels stayed high, due to repression, and was sublimated. They could not vent as easily. Now venting is considered normal to culture, with many females trying to keep up with the male hormone cycle. The result is the female body can fall behind, so longer term fatigue sets in. You become a long drawn out version of the male taking a nap after sex.
« Last Edit: 11/01/2016 14:28:35 by puppypower »
 

Offline Freya888

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Hi everyone,
I'm female, 28 years old. I've been experiencing a negative reaction after orgasm pretty much all of my sexual life.
Even as a young teenager I would cry a lot after masturbating and feel generally depressed. But it has gotten steadily
Worse to the point where I avoid orgasm as much as I can which for me is extremely difficult because I'm also kind of
Addicted to orgasm at the same time. The horniness just builds and builds until I can't take it any more. Then I orgasm,
And I'm down for a week. Truly sh1t, can't tell you. It's good to hear other women's stories. I'm interested to hear about the
Flu like symptoms. I don't he t those so much. My symptoms after orgasm are : extreme feeling of depletion/exhaustion. I literally
Feel drained of life force. Depressed. Anxiety. Difficulty sleeping, night sweats, weakness, brain fog, feeling totally in motivated,
Lose all desire to do anything. At its worst I have a full mental breakdown- totally lose it. Screaming, wailing with internal emotional
Pain. Also the sheer frustration of this happening over and over again. I get so angry at myself for having an orgasm because I know my health and wellbeing hinges on abstinence!! Oh, ladies... There is somerging not right here!!. And all these symptoms are kidney/adrenal related. I have adrenal fatigue and all my symptoms go away when I don't orgasm. I'm stronger, happy, full of energy, motivated and excited about life. I orgasm and I'm a different person after. Not sure how to move forward from here I feel like I'm stuck in a checkmate. But it's good to just tell my story and read others so I don't feel alone in this :)
« Last Edit: 13/01/2016 23:01:59 by Freya888 »
 

Offline timey

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Hi Freya... Your post in relation to those that I have noticed over the last year or so from the guys with POIS, keeps coming back to my mind, and I have been doing some thinking...but first a disclaimer.

I am neither a physician nor a phycologist, and I am not suffering from POIS, therefore it is unlikely that what I say here will be of any relevance to you, or any other POIS sufferer.  Having said that, I can say that I find that breaking things down into psychological  'bit pieces', for want of better terminology, and examining how they all fit together to be very helpful to me, and I think that I have, not a theory, but a line of thought that I found interesting.  If this line of thought is upsetting or offensive to you, or any other POIS sufferer, then I sincerely apologise in advance, and state this line of thought as being entirely experimental on my behalf, and I hope my disclaimer withstands...

As said, I do not suffer from POIS and now state to you my deepest sympathy, I cannot begin to imagine...  however I do suffer from intense anxiety in situations that are not straightforwardly defined, and I can tell you that in such situations where I find people are not straightforward with me, I am indeed actually physically affected by such as you describe, with depression, weakness, apathy, a sick giddy feeling in the stomach, lack of appetite, hyper tension, an uncomfortableness of my own self in my skin - resulting in an overwhelming desire to cut myself off socially from other humans, that otherwise manifests in my exploding, sometimes violently, and often to my own detriment.  Since most dealings with most adult people are, despite my best efforts, pretty far from straightforward...well, lol!  Anyway, as I said, I find a logical process of self examination to be helpful...

Looking at the human format of sexual expression...
We have four main ways in which we express and perceive attraction in another.  There is an attraction of the mind, an attraction of the heart, an attraction of kinship/belonging with the  herd, and the bodily sexual attraction.
Now, in as much as it is possible to express and perceive only a sexual attraction with another, without a meeting of minds, or hearts, or a shared feeling of kinship/belonging... it is also possible to share love with another only as a meeting of minds, or only as a meeting of hearts, or only in a sense of kinship.  These scenarios, however, very rarely happen.  In most instances a love shared in a meeting of minds, a meeting of hearts or a shared feeling of kinship, or any combination of the above, will be accompanied by feelings of sexuality.  This is the norm, it's how most people operate within their need to share love, and i don't know about you, but my experience is that it can all get a tad confusing!
Ok, so we have these four means of attraction and expression of love.  Ideally we would express ourself just as well in all four means as one, but reality isn't like that, we all of us find ourselves somehow handicapped perhaps?  Each of these expressions of love, just like the orgasm, require a person to undertake a sense of surrender, an immersion of themselves in another...  And also, very significantly, each of these means of expression of love needs to find an inward mirror, whereas such as in the act of orgasming through masturbation, a person must share a love of their own mind, their own heart, and a sense of kinship and belonging within their own self in order to properly outwardly express love through these means themselves.  For whatever reason, some find themselves blocked in the mind.  Some find themselves blocked in the heart.  Some are blocked in their sexuality, in that they cannot achieve feelings of sexuality at all, or cannot achieve orgasm, while others are blocked in their feelings of kinship/belonging, or indeed any combination of the above.  When I say blocked , this may be a non coming to terms with oneself in that area, or an inability, for whatever reason to share oneself with another.
I think that meetings of minds and meetings of hearts is self explanatory, but the sharing of love in kinship is more complicated.  We are hard wired to live in smallish groups.  Clans if you like.  Much like horses, or any other animal that lives in groups, we feel anxiety when isolated from the group.  In today's society we are all divided and boxed into isolated families.  It has been so long since we have lived in groups of families that our conscious selves have forgotten the relaxed feeling of being within the security, and within the combined love of a group of families, but unconsciously we yearn for it and seek to find kinship via weaker, less bonding alternatives, ie: religion, football, etc.
Any of the above can cause emotional instability in a person that may manifest itself in chemical imbalances arising within the brain, resulting in any one of which all manner of possible bodily effects.

Looking at the sex  addict...  Clearly the sex addict is operating sexually, but this type of sexuality is a sexuality that is perceived and expressed 'through' the mind, (not to be confused with a love shared that is 'of' the mind), rather than 'through' the heart. (not to be confused with a love shared that is "of" the heart).  The sex addict is blocked in their heart, they cannot let go, surrender to the moment in their heart.   But... what the sex addict craves 'is' actually the surrender of their heart, which manifests itself in a desire, that is then mistakenly expressed and experienced by the sex addict through sexuality and orgasm, that, of course, fails to satisfy the heart.  The sex addict is then nagged by the pangs of the heart, but because the heart is blocked, the hearts need manifests again 'through' the sex addicts mind and is expressed via the craving of more sexual activity.
The sex addict is making a reflection of the loneliness of his heart into cravings for sex.

My line of thought is that perhaps POIS is a kind of reverse symmetry of the sex addict scenario.   That clearly the POIS sufferer is operating sexually, because of a remaining desire for sex and the fact of orgasm that they then suffer POIS after...
It would seem to me that the POIS sufferer's sexuality 'is' being expressed 'through' the heart, but that it is their sense of kinship/belonging that is blocked 'maybe'.  The POIS sufferer is experiencing a craving for an expression and perception of a sense of kinship and belonging in this world, which let's face it, is a pretty daunting prospect in current climate, and the heart feels sickened with disappointment when the experience of orgasm reminiscent of this feeling of surrender and relaxation of kinship fails to satisfy, causing chemical imbalance, resulting in feelings of un-wellness and depression...so the POIS sufferer's mind steps in with its cold hard logic saying "look, it doesn't make  you feel good, don't bother", in direct contrast to the nature of the POIS sufferers openness of heart and basic sexual needs.  The POIS sufferer is 'perhaps' reflecting their sense of alienation of kinship into an alienation of their orgasm...

Alrighty... I don't blame you at all if you feel I'm out of line and tell me exactly where to  got off, or  that I should not comment concerning a condition that I do not suffer from... It 'is' just a line of thought, but I can appreciate that you may feel I should not have shared it...hopefully my disclaimer has that  sorted?

If you are by chance not offended, would you mind telling me if my line of thought on associated feelings of social or family alienation rings any bells for you?  I'm curious...
« Last Edit: 15/01/2016 01:39:28 by timey »
 
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Offline Freya888

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Hi Timey,
Are you a man or a woman? Just curious.. First of all I'm struck by your need to apologise profusely for giving your opinions and suggestions.. Please don't apologise I really appreciate your input!!
Definitely what you said rings many bells for sure. I always feel profoundly disappointed by sex, no matter how pleasurable it's been.. Afterwards I always feel that I didn't get what I actually needed.. And I think your suggestion that the need for closeness and belonging is being missed.. Even though my partners have loved me and wanted to cuddle after and all that, I have always felt that sex could be SO MUCH more, and the potential is always missed... And another thing you spoke of that resonated with me was about the heart... For some reason.. I never have felt much at all in my heart when having sex. It's all been about the 'hot' sexual aspect and love isn't really part of it.. Sigh.. I'm working on it!! Must get to the bottom of this!! Thanks again for your reply and sorry it took me so long to read it.. I posted my message in a moment of desperation and the. Forgot about it until now and came to check if anybody had replied! Was glad to see your thoughtful response. :)
 

Online puppypower

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Let me approach this from a different angle with a relative analogy. Say someone was on a diet. The goal of losing weight has been in the works for some time and means a lot to them. After planning they start diet. After a few weeks they cheat on the diet. The  people who created the most lofty goal to succeed, will feel the strongest feelings of disappointment, as well as other possible feelings. We could call this emotional withdrawal, Post Cheating on the Diet Syndrome or PCOTDS.

In the case of PCOTDS, this is not based on a chemical imbalance, although a chemical imbalance may appear up, later, if we remain depressed. We can treat the symptoms of PCOTDS but this does not reach the cause. Rather the foundation affect stems from subroutines in the mind. We can only be disappointed and depressed, if we previous had a lofty image of a goal, we did not achieve.

In this case, the imaginary positive self image of being on the diet, may have associated extrapolations of becoming more beautiful, more confident and happier. The opposite of that ideal is more ugly, more withdrawn and more depressed. If one sets a strong line in the sand, via a subroutine, there may not be shades of gray in terms of the output reaction.

The question I would ask is, what did/do women with POIS expect from an orgasm? What is the image of the distant goal that this dynamics is/was suppose do lead to? Is it morning sickness? Is it flying on a cloud of joy? Is it love?

I don't mean to stereo-type, but this appears to be an open minded group discussion. In my experience, many, but not all female minds, seem to work more like an on-off switch, instead of a variable switch. This is partly connected to perfection, which has only one way. For example, the abused wife may love her abusive husband, unconditionally; on switch. Instead of pro-rating her love in shades of gray that average her abusive husband's good side wth his bad side, she may want to see only the good. This can be to her peril. If they divorce, instead of taking an average of the good he did over the years, and the bad he also did, she may only feel 100% negativity; off switch.

The on-off switch of the female mind appears to be connected to not only perfection, but also to unconditional love and maternal instincts. Unconditional love does not have shades of gray. The mother does not pro-rate the love for a child who has both problems and brings her joy; shades of gray in her love. She will keep the switch on. This female line in the sand, could explain why POIS is more of a lady thing. The reflection sub-routine symptoms will be stronger.

I come back to the questions, what is/was the ideal image of an orgasm; line in the sand?
 

Offline timey

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Hi Freya, just saw this.

Yes, I'm a woman, and the reason why I offer apology before commenting is that a) I wished to make it clear that I am neither a physician or a phycologist, and b) because what I am suggesting, based on my personal experience of a 'situation' induced anxiety, that results in symptoms that are, apart from the flu, very similar to the symptoms which I have heard described experienced by POISE sufferers... is that POISE 'could' be self inflicted, as are my episodes of anxiety.  It's just that some people might not want to hear this.  And I can understand that, but if it were true, then I personally see it as being good news indeed.  Anything self inflicted can be self cured.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking psychiatry here.  I don't believe another person can sort out ones inner self for one.  This is a process of self help and self examination that 'may' perhaps, for some people, involve another's listening ears as an offloading process, but is essentially a journey that one must walk alone.

Sex is a funny one.  As said before, an attraction to, or from, another adult of one's preferred sexual orientation will generally be accompanied by feelings of sexuality, even if sex is not the primary attraction, or even the attraction at-all.
Within these dynamics it's easy to become confused.  If one cannot let go with another in one's heart, and one's heart is crying out for a connection, then it would be quite easy to feel disappointment in a sexual experience and consequently reflect this disappointment upon the feelings of openness and let go that one feels during and after an orgasm, be that orgasming with another, or just by oneself.
The trick would be to make a self examination of the cause of one's reticence to 'make' a heart connection, remembering that 'family' and 'belonging' feelings are very much wrapped up with the heart.

When I was a youngster getting into my first sexual experiences, I found that there was something not that satisfying.  I figured out that I was guilty of trading sex for company, because I did not want to hang out on my own.  I have found in my experience that I can only truly relax sexually if I am in love, or in the event that I'm not in love, and just in sexual need, that I must feel something in my heart for the person in a kinship way, and preferably be excited by their mind.

For me, I experience anxiety when I feel that people are not being straight with me.  This anxiety causes me to feel like removing myself from the group.  When looking at this in 'bit pieces', I can break it down to the fact that when people are not straight with me, I am actually 'being' isolated from the group.  I do not have to turn those feelings of isolation inwards on myself and be responsible for removing myself, this deed has already been done by another, or others.  Then I just deal with it, without personally owning it.  This helps me.
If this line of thinking works for you, and you find that you have a root cause, and feel that you have some 'stuff' to work through, I'm not all that much into therapy things... but I have seen great results with a particular early morning 'working things through' meditation that one can do by oneself.  I could tell you how to do it if you were interested...
 

Offline timey

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Let me approach this from a different angle with a relative analogy. Say someone was on a diet. The goal of losing weight has been in the works for some time and means a lot to them. After planning they start diet. After a few weeks they cheat on the diet. The  people who created the most lofty goal to succeed, will feel the strongest feelings of disappointment, as well as other possible feelings. We could call this emotional withdrawal, Post Cheating on the Diet Syndrome or PCOTDS.

In the case of PCOTDS, this is not based on a chemical imbalance, although a chemical imbalance may appear up, later, if we remain depressed. We can treat the symptoms of PCOTDS but this does not reach the cause. Rather the foundation affect stems from subroutines in the mind. We can only be disappointed and depressed, if we previous had a lofty image of a goal, we did not achieve.

In this case, the imaginary positive self image of being on the diet, may have associated extrapolations of becoming more beautiful, more confident and happier. The opposite of that ideal is more ugly, more withdrawn and more depressed. If one sets a strong line in the sand, via a subroutine, there may not be shades of gray in terms of the output reaction.

The question I would ask is, what did/do women with POIS expect from an orgasm? What is the image of the distant goal that this dynamics is/was suppose do lead to? Is it morning sickness? Is it flying on a cloud of joy? Is it love?

I don't mean to stereo-type, but this appears to be an open minded group discussion. In my experience, many, but not all female minds, seem to work more like an on-off switch, instead of a variable switch. This is partly connected to perfection, which has only one way. For example, the abused wife may love her abusive husband, unconditionally; on switch. Instead of pro-rating her love in shades of gray that average her abusive husband's good side wth his bad side, she may want to see only the good. This can be to her peril. If they divorce, instead of taking an average of the good he did over the years, and the bad he also did, she may only feel 100% negativity; off switch.

The on-off switch of the female mind appears to be connected to not only perfection, but also to unconditional love and maternal instincts. Unconditional love does not have shades of gray. The mother does not pro-rate the love for a child who has both problems and brings her joy; shades of gray in her love. She will keep the switch on. This female line in the sand, could explain why POIS is more of a lady thing. The reflection sub-routine symptoms will be stronger.

I come back to the questions, what is/was the ideal image of an orgasm; line in the sand?

Puppypower

Ok, firstly... You need to see this:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.0

There seem to be a lot more male sufferers of POISE than woman to me.  I'm literally dying to hear what you have to say to them...(chuckle)

Secondly, an orgasm, is an orgasm is an orgasm.  You get big orgasms, little orgasms, multiples orgasms (preferably :D), fizzle out orgasms, and swing on a star orgasms.

An orgasm has got nothing to do with  lines in the sand.  What you refer to are the dynamics of personal relationships, and these dynamics of personal relationship really shouldn't be dragged into ones personal sexuality, otherwise a trade off is occurring.  Trade offs are ok, but only if all parties are comfortable.
When you feel lines in the sand are being drawn, all this means is your relationship needs a bit of sorting out, or that the lines in your sand and the lines in hers aren't matching up anymore, full stop.  Also...I think it worth mentioning that a lot of you men, while you fantasise about women who can own their own sexuality...when you actually meet one, it scares the damn sh1t out of you!
 

Offline nutmeg

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Hi all, I have had POIS for 18 years but have never been brave enough to visit my doctor about it. I also have CFS/ME. My POIS symptoms are similar to what most of you have described, but sometimes, if I've had a lot of stress as well, I have severe nerve pain as part of my  symptoms. It is so bad that I cannot stand light or noise and just want to scream. This nerve pain feels like I am plugged into an electric sockets it's so severe. Also, I look physically different: very pale; swollen, puffy face; neck pulled tight back. Does anyone else have these severe symptoms? Does anyone know of any medications that help? x
 

Offline KarenSedd

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So grateful to have found this forum.  I'm finding myself a bit scared to read  the posts.  Hmm....not true what that's about.  Of course I am so utterly frustrated and the few times I masterbate (sex, same), it literally like ruins my life.  I make such bad decisions the next day- bc I am so self loathing, exhausted, headachy, zapped spiritually, out of touch with grace, pale, nauseous and unable to think- the decisions can sometimes affect me long term.  Currently dealing with a terrible decision I made post orgasm =, and it's 10 months later (insert crying emoji)  Maybe the emoji is too light- bc this is Very serious.  I am still single at 44 and I am sure this has something to do with it.  I'd consider myself more on the sexually anorectic side- was indeed raped as a child...I don't have a picture memory but felt it was my father.  I was in sheer terror and screaming when I remembered.  Also, I was told by a church lady that Gd just has me on a short leash (lol- she is in her 5-s and has never had a boyfriend even once and has resigned to being celibate and alone, which is right for her- but I felt she put that into my head and it was a very negative affirmation on sex, for me).  I try to tell people it's more than just guilt- because I know you all understand it's deeper- it's spiritual, mental, physical, phsyological..it's multi layered.  I did Not experience these symptoms with who I would consider the love of my life, in the 90's , when I was 25.  I felt so pretty the next day after sex that I remember early on (sex was very new to me then), I was angry at him when he wouldn't have sex with me bc I had an audition the next day )lol).  So I know it's possible, tucked away in there.  My next relationship was an affair with a married man (before you go judgin, I was HORRIFIED at myself, even though I knew this guy was my boyfriend the second time we met then looked own at his hand and saw a ring on his finger.)  And so we worked together (it was a work relationship for about a year and nothin- I resisted bc I am deeply moralistic- until one day it happened.  Then I got sick - so sick- I quickly got out of it and became a christian (formerly a Jew)...but the nausea from sex with him hasn't seemed to leave me.

I hope it's more of a physiological thing- I think...bc I cant seem to get past the psychological- With Anyone.  But I might try hypnosis.  Would love more feedback on some solutions!  Blessing to you all!  We can get past this - I know we can!
 

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