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Author Topic: After taking illegal subtances, Is it possible i dont return to my normal state?  (Read 6963 times)

Offline stana

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I heard that after taking drugs (illegal ones, cannabis, heroin, cocaine etc) there is a possibility that i dont return to my normal state..

1) Is this true?
2) Does it apply for ALL illegal drugs?
3) Is it permenant?
4) If it is a permenant thing, are there any medications or antibiotics that can bring the person back to a normal state?

Im not a drug user..it was just eating away at my mind..i didnt think something like that could be true..saying as cannabis is legal in holland.

Thanks


 

Offline RD

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There is an association between cannabis use and schizophrenia ...
http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/streetdrugs.html
However this association may be due to schizophrenics (unsuccessfully) attempting to self-medicate with street drugs.

 

Offline stana

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There is an association between cannabis use and schizophrenia ...

Do you mean the user will only suffer schizophrenia after taking cannabis?

Or all the time?

Thanks
 

Offline RD

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A disproportionally large amount of individuals admitted to psychiatric hospitals with a diagnosis of schizophrenia are heavy cannabis users ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6732005.stm
There are two possible explanations for this association:
1) Taking cannabis has triggered/exacerbated schizophrenia.
2) People who have schizophrenia, which is not drug-induced, are unsuccessfully attempting to self-medicate their psychiatric condition with cannabis.

Quote
Is it permenant?
Quote
Is there such a thing as ‘cannabis psychosis’?
Recent research in Denmark suggests that yes, there is. It is a short-lived psychotic disorder that seems to be brought on by cannabis use but which subsides fairly quickly once the individual has stopped using it. It's quite unusual though – in the whole of Denmark they found only around 100 new cases per year.

However, they also found that:
Three quarters had a different psychotic disorder diagnosed within the next year.
Nearly half still had a psychotic disorder 3 years later. 

So, it also seems probable that nearly half of those diagnosed as having cannabis psychosis are actually showing the first signs of a more long-lasting psychotic disorder, such as schizophrenia. It may be this group of people who are particularly vulnerable to the effects of cannabis, and so should probably avoid it in the future.
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/mentalhealthproblems/alcoholanddrugs/cannabisandmentalhealth.aspx



« Last Edit: 27/05/2008 19:32:07 by RD »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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There is at least one other possibility. There may be some factor that predisposes people to both schizophrenia and canabis use.
Imagine that before their symptoms are overt enough to get people diagnosed as schizophrenic, they are "a bit odd".
Imagine also that being "a bit odd" leaves them short of work and friends.
Might that lack of support, a perceived future, etc leave them likely to think "sod this life- I might as well get stoned"?
I believe that heavy alcohol use is also correlated with mental health problems.
 

Offline chris

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This is almost certainly true - that individuals with a predisposition towards developing a mental illness are more likely to take drugs as a form of self-medication - but there is also strong evidence linking cannabis use with acute psychosis in otherwise normally-functioning individuals. One explanation is that the cannabis on the streets these days is significantly enriched for the active ingredients - THC - than in the past. It's this very high dose that seems to provoke the problem in some individuals.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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There is at least one other possibility. There may be some factor that predisposes people to both schizophrenia and canabis use.
Imagine that before their symptoms are overt enough to get people diagnosed as schizophrenic, they are "a bit odd".
Imagine also that being "a bit odd" leaves them short of work and friends.
Might that lack of support, a perceived future, etc leave them likely to think "sod this life- I might as well get stoned"?
I believe that heavy alcohol use is also correlated with mental health problems.

Absolutely!

I studied addiction/dependence for my PhD. One aspect I took into account was the psychological history of drug/alcohol users before they started on drugs/alcohol. Unfortunately, although many had displayed anti-social behaviour, or signs of mental health problems, at school (expulsions/suspensions/truancy/rebellion being fairly common), most of the subjects had not previously had any formal psychological testing. However, among those that had, psychological problems were more prevalent than in the general population. That, in itself, is not surprising as only those with suspected problems get tested. I did, though, pioneer a method of "reverse engineering" that could give a reasonable indication of previous mental health issues.

Schizophrenia was the most common previous illness with depression second. Had all my subjects been tested, I have no doubt the proportion would have been higher.

That is the reason I take exception to government figures on the subject. My research was totally impartial whereas the results that are publicised are taken from research projects that have "establishment" connections, and the methodologies and statistical techniques used are weighted to give the required answers.

On a similar vein - there used to be a belief that masturbation caused madness due to the high number of mental asylum inmates who masturbated. What wasn't taken into account was the fact that most of them had nothing better to do with their time!
« Last Edit: 28/05/2008 09:37:10 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline BenV

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There is at least one other possibility. There may be some factor that predisposes people to both schizophrenia and cannabis use.
Imagine that before their symptoms are overt enough to get people diagnosed as schizophrenic, they are "a bit odd".
Imagine also that being "a bit odd" leaves them short of work and friends.
Might that lack of support, a perceived future, etc leave them likely to think "sod this life- I might as well get stoned"?
I believe that heavy alcohol use is also correlated with mental health problems.

But this wouldn't account for social cannabis smokers, as in those that only smoke at parties or stag weekends in Amsterdam.  It would be interesting to see if lone smokers are more likely to display symptoms of mental illness than those who 'socially smoke'.

With regards other substances, it seems very likely that many people who do take drugs return to their normal state fairly reliably.  I think it depends on the drug, as thousands of people take Ecstasy in nightclubs on a weekend, and are perfectly normal otherwise.  However, should you develop an addiction, then that is definitely not returning to a 'normal' state, and you are likely changed forever.
 

Offline stana

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When i said 'not returning to a normal state' i didnt mean addiction  :P

I meant..feeling the effects for months afterwards, not returning to 'soberness'

thanks
 

Offline RD

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thousands of people take Ecstasy in nightclubs on a weekend, and are perfectly normal otherwise. 

Some would disagree ...
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/publications_ecstasy_8908_7.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_Tuesday
« Last Edit: 28/05/2008 14:47:07 by RD »
 

Offline BenV

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thousands of people take Ecstasy in nightclubs on a weekend, and are perfectly normal otherwise.

Some would disagree ...
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/publications_ecstasy_8908_7.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_Tuesday

Very true, but some people, and I assume most people, knowing that thousands of people take it each week, will be okay.  (sorry, trying to find stats...).

Getting back to the real question, I've not heard of someone using drugs and then never 'coming down', but as I don't really understand the chemistry involved, it could be possible.  You would naturally come down from Ecstacy (or similar, amphetamines etc) as they stimulate the release of serotonin, and eventually you can't produce enough to keep the effect going.  I think to have an effect most (if not all) drugs rely on the presence of the active compound, which will be used up or metabolised, leading to the effect wearing off. LSD seems to have longer lasting effects, but I'm really not sure.

I would expect that there would be drugs available that would bring you back down (you can block morphine receptors for example), but again, I'm not really qualified to answer.
 

Offline RD

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I think to have an effect most (if not all) drugs rely on the presence of the active compound, which will be used up or metabolised, leading to the effect wearing off.

If the drug used altered chemical receptors it could have effects which would persist even when the drug was not present,
when I say "effects" this would not be a euphoric state, quite the reverse, as described by the phrase "Suicide Tuesday" coined by users.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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With regard "returning to their normal state", in most cases the user can return without too many problems. However, heroin addicts going cold turkey may take exception to that statement.

There are, though, many instances of flashbacks among LSD users. Flashbacks are when the user experiences certain aspects of tripping without having taken the drug again. They normally occur within a few days of drug use but can occur a year or more later. It is thought that flashbacks are probably psychological in nature rather than being the result of drug retention of physiological changes.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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"On a similar vein - there used to be a belief that masturbation caused madness due to the high number of mental asylum inmates who masturbated. What wasn't taken into account was the fact that most of them had nothing better to do with their time!"
Did they look at the prevalence in the "normal" population.

Incidentally, the reason canabis was banned in the UK and, quite a lot of the West, was on the word of a doctor in Egypt who had noticed that lots of the inmates of the asylums were dope smokers.
Unfortunately, they forgot to check what the rest of the population was like; it was probably also full of hopheads.
There might have been a difference, there might not- nobody checked.
 

Offline turnipsock

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This would be a simple thing to test.

Why not give somebody a lot of these drugs and see if they go schizo?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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If they did, how would you know that they weren't heading that way before you gave them the drugs.
 

Offline turnipsock

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If they did, how would you know that they weren't heading that way before you gave them the drugs.


you do it with a control experiment and not give them any drugs and see if they go schizo
 

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