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Author Topic: It's Water at the Centre of the Earth  (Read 22395 times)

Offline SFMA

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« on: 31/05/2008 02:51:34 »
The difficulties in determining the Centre of the Earth arise due to many reasons. One is that the earth is not static in the sense that itís rotating around it's own axis. One particular place cannot be the centre while itís moving unless itís movement is followed by itís surroundings. Then the centre would be the static point of attraction for itís surroundings although it might be in motion too. 

This static centre of the attraction or the centre of gravity around which the earth is moving could be the innermost base of the earth. The earth as a whole and its every particle has at least a common thing to this centre. Thus if we extend towards its surface we can reach the whole circulating earth.

But the question is if we do the same inward what would we find the very last thing remaining at its innermost static centre? What ever it may be this would be the centre of the earth! Most common, most concentrated matter of all! It comes first encompass the whole thing and the last to remain. This could only be the water!

Water is in the bottom of things is at the Centre of the Earth!

« Last Edit: 31/05/2008 02:55:26 by SFMA »


 

Offline Bored chemist

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #1 on: 31/05/2008 18:35:04 »
Abject nonsense.
 

lyner

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #2 on: 01/06/2008 21:20:09 »
SFMA are you saying that the centre of mass is the point to which everything is attracted?
 

Offline SFMA

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #3 on: 02/06/2008 11:38:46 »
SFMA are you saying that the centre of mass is the point to which everything is attracted?
To explain the anisotropic speed of sound in the inner core or at the centre of the earth, some researchers had proposed that the inner core was, in fact, a single giant crystal with the hexagonal structure. The hexagonal structure is justified because experiments and calculations have revealed it to be the stable structure adopted by iron under high pressure and temperature.

My propositon is at the very inmost of the inner core, the last thing at the very bottom is water.
 

lyner

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #4 on: 02/06/2008 14:07:07 »
Why water?
What's the reason for a molecular compound even existing at such extreme temperature and pressure?
Why not Iron or even Pot Noodles, if the fancy takes you?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #5 on: 02/06/2008 19:17:26 »
SFMA,
There is, as you note, quite a lot of water on the earth's surface.
That's because the rocks sank.
If there were water at the bottome it would get forced out of the way to let the rocks sink a bit more.
 

lyner

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #6 on: 02/06/2008 22:58:56 »
You're trying to reason with them again, BC.
You never learn!
 

Offline SFMA

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #7 on: 02/06/2008 23:33:52 »
Why water?
Of the four basic elements Earth, Water, Air and Fire only the water
is dependent from the others. Earth can't survive without water, air
has water elements and fire can't survive without the air. Alchemists
even calim that water is the essence of fire.

It's quite natural that's in the perpetual centre would be dependent from others. The rest would be dependent on it that is normal.
 

Offline BenV

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #8 on: 03/06/2008 08:10:46 »
Why water?
Of the four basic elements Earth, Water, Air and Fire only the water
is dependent from the others. Earth can't survive without water, air
has water elements and fire can't survive without the air. Alchemists
even calim that water is the essence of fire.

It's quite natural that's in the perpetual centre would be dependent from others. The rest would be dependent on it that is normal.
But this is a science forum, so we don't think of "the four basic elements" and certainly wouldn't give two hoots about what alchemists have to say.
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #9 on: 03/06/2008 08:51:30 »
Quote
The hexagonal structure is justified because experiments and calculations have revealed it to be the stable structure adopted by iron under high pressure and temperature.

My propositon is at the very inmost of the inner core, the last thing at the very bottom is water.
And how is your proposition justified? by experiments and calculations?
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #10 on: 03/06/2008 08:55:36 »
Compress water enough and you get Hot Ice, so water cannot exist at high pressure. The pressure at the core is capable of much more than hot ice.
 

lyner

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #11 on: 03/06/2008 09:44:25 »
The only hot ice I know of is a supersaturated solution which crystalises very fast (Utube is full of it). Is that what you mean?
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #12 on: 03/06/2008 11:50:22 »
No I mean the compressed water experiment that generates hot ice instantly. Even at relatively low pressure compared to the anticipated pressure at the core which would be several million atmospheres in order to contain the thermal nuclear energy without it ripping our planet to bits. So expecting water to exist there as we know it may not be a logical conclusion.

By passing the 20 million amperes of current through a small aluminum chamber, a magnetic field is created that isentropically compresses aluminum plates that sandwich a thin (25 micron) layer of water to pressures ranging from 50,000 to 120,000 atmospheres. For reference, what you experience at sea level is one atmosphere of pressure. What the researchers found was at these incredibly high pressures, water was squeezed into iceóice VII to be exact, which was subsequently hotter than the boiling point of water at atmospheric pressure. As described by Sandia researcher Daniel Dolan, "Apparently it's virtually impossible to keep water from freezing at pressures beyond 70,000 atmospheres." Maybe that's a bit of an understatement, but it is very important to know for future operation of the Z machine and similar devices.  The physical properties of iceóany ice phaseóare vastly different from their liquid counter part.
http://arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2007/03/18/turing-water-into-very-hot-ice-very-very-quickly

« Last Edit: 03/06/2008 12:10:12 by Andrew K Fletcher »
 

lyner

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #13 on: 03/06/2008 13:44:27 »
Oh, that Hot Ice - just looked it up.
At those temperatures and pressures, surely every other substance would behave differently too. The notion of normal chemical bonds must surely not hold, in any case so how could (and why would you want to think it could) water be down there. On a simple density argument, the heavier elements would be expected to dominate down there. 
What is the attraction of the idea of having water down there, in any case? You seem to be implying almost mystical significance to it. Is there any evidence for it?
I know they have some fairly good reasons for the present model of the interior of the Earth, based on Seismographic recordings but I didn't think it included any necessity for water to be present to account for the behaviour of seismic waves - or the magnetic field - or the rate of cooling.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #14 on: 03/06/2008 19:34:40 »
Earlier today a colleague of mine was bemoaning the fact that the word "quintessentially" was grossly overused. I asked why the other 4 essences (or elements) didn't get the same attention.
I'm now happy to say that this story of the 4 elements is quintessentially nonsense.

(Sophie, is that far enough from reasoning?)
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #15 on: 03/06/2008 22:51:07 »
The idea of water at the core has not been shown to have merrit. And should water ever reach the core in sufficient quantity it would cause a spectacular eruption. Take an experiment we did as kids while messing around with molten lead. ďDefinitely not to be tried at home! The molten lead was poured onto a tray that had a few drops of water on it. The lead exploded spraying everyone. There was a loud whoosh as the Lead could not exist in its molten state next to the water and the Lead really went awol.

However, the same molten lead was poured into a large tank of cold water with no problems and this purified the lead taking out all of the oxidised metal and leaving shiny lead. This fits with lava flowing into the ocean and solidifying and also fits with explosions observed when the ratio of lava to water increases as water evaporates from the lakes found in inactive volcano

So even if water could withstand the pressure down there which it canít. It would cause a huge explosion because its atomic energy would be liberated.

Eruptions into crater lakes can be entirely benign or extremely violent. In 1971-72, slow extrusion of lava onto the floor of a crater lake at La Soufriere Volcano, on the Caribbean island of St. Vincent, heated and eventually evaporated 75 percent of the water, with no harm to anyone. Then, in 1979, rapidly rising magma mixed with some of the remaining lake water, resulting in strong explosions and eruption columns 18 km (11 miles) high. Magma rising rapidly into any crater lake can lead to such explosions; a fissure opening across the floor of Green Lake could do it.
http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/1998/98_11_05.html
 

Offline SFMA

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #16 on: 04/06/2008 15:47:01 »
The idea of water at the core has not been shown to have merrit. And should water ever reach the core in sufficient quantity it would cause a spectacular eruption.
"We also note that The Earth’s core does not contains pure iron, but contains light impurities (carbon, oxygen, silicon or sulphur) at a total concentration of up to 10%." The full article
appeared on Nature
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://chianti.geol.ucl.ac.uk/~dario/earthfg.gif&imgrefurl=http://chianti.geol.ucl.ac.uk/~dario/resint.htm&h=536&w=600&sz=26&tbnid=-UwkRLOSS3IJ:&tbnh=121&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3DEarth%2B%2Bcore&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=3
« Last Edit: 04/06/2008 17:29:06 by SFMA »
 

Offline SFMA

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« Reply #17 on: 04/06/2008 17:30:36 »
CNN - July 1996

Deep inside the Earth, spinning in a watery pool of iron, the Earth's core is a giant iron crystal slightly smaller but more dense than the moon. Beyond that, the substance at the heart of our planet always has been a mystery.

 

Offline Bored chemist

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #18 on: 04/06/2008 19:26:51 »
"It would cause a huge explosion because its atomic energy would be liberated."
No it wouldn't.

Quoting CNN as the source of all truth generally gets you laughed at, but to do so where it plainly proves you are wrong (please note iron isn't the same as water) is even funnier.
Thanks for that, I needed a good giggle.
 

Offline Andrew K Fletcher

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« Reply #19 on: 04/06/2008 20:55:38 »
Well youve got me there BC because I dont have £ billions of diposable income to go test this to prove it.
 

lyner

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #20 on: 04/06/2008 23:41:30 »
Earlier today a colleague of mine was bemoaning the fact that the word "quintessentially" was grossly overused. I asked why the other 4 essences (or elements) didn't get the same attention.
I'm now happy to say that this story of the 4 elements is quintessentially nonsense.

(Sophie, is that far enough from reasoning?)
I would agree with you there.
This theory is based on much less evidence than the current, accepted, one(s). But that's what you expect to find on a 'New Theories' forum.
Most people who post here don't actually have a 'new theory', they have an 'idea' which is  something a lot less substantial.
 

Offline SFMA

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #21 on: 05/06/2008 13:21:11 »
Quoting CNN as the source of all truth generally gets you laughed at, but to do so where it plainly proves you are wrong (please note iron isn't the same as water) is even funnier.
Thanks for that, I needed a good giggle.

It's just to give some idea how others are thinking about it while
none of us can see for sure what's actually in the core. Our findings
are mainly based on the data of sesimic waves. If you click on the link I posted you will a article  apeared on Nature it shows some researchers noted there are some oxygen in the core as well. While there is solid iron
that doesn't mean there woun't be any thing else.
 

Offline SFMA

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #22 on: 05/06/2008 14:37:39 »
Should water ever reach the core in sufficient quantity it would cause a spectacular eruption.
My theory asumes that the original source of the water was at the core. And the very first spring is still remaining but not oozing any more water. Consequently it has frozen down.

When water freezes it expands rapidly adding about 9 % by volume. Fresh water has a maximum density at around 4į Celsius. And water is the only substance where the maximum density does not occur when solidified. As ice is lighter than water, it floats. Water can solidified to a rock state but
still it maximum density does not occur.

 

lyner

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #23 on: 05/06/2008 19:17:38 »
There may be traces of all sorts of things down there but what evidence has been found that would indicate any significant quantity of water?
The pressures are so great (no question about that) that water would behave totally differently from how it behaves
If you have a totally different idea about the formation of planets then you can come to all sorts of conclusions. But do you have any documented evidence to support your ideas?
If water, then why not green cheese?
What's so special about water, in any case?
I know it's useful for us but what else?
« Last Edit: 05/06/2008 19:20:59 by sophiecentaur »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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It's Water at the Centre of the Earth
« Reply #24 on: 05/06/2008 20:01:43 »
"When water freezes it expands rapidly adding about 9 % by volume. " Only at pressures near atmospheric- at higher pressures other solid species are formed.
"Fresh water has a maximum density at around 4į Celsius"
Again, only at fairly low pressures.
"water is the only substance where the maximum density does not occur when solidified."
No, the commonest other example is probably tin.

"As ice is lighter than water, it floats."
Once again, only at low pressures.
And I'm afraid I have no real idea what
"Water can solidified to a rock state but still it maximum density does not occur."
means.

Incidentally, there seems to be general agreement that there is hot iron down in the earth's core.
Since hot iron reacts chemically with water I'm pretty sure that there's no water.
Still, that's only reallity talking an reallity doesn't seem to have much to do with this thread.

BTW, Andrew, I don't really expect you to prove that water turns into a nuclear explosive under the conditions in the earth's core- just come up with some vaguely plausible mechanism before making statements like that.
 

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