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Author Topic: If we're spending millions on finding a cure for AIDS, why haven't we found one yet?  (Read 24053 times)

Padi Matlala

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Padi Matlala asked the Naked Scientists:

Billions of dollars are being spent worldwide to find a cure for AIDS. Where are all these efforts headed if we cannot find a cure for AIDS? Are the imperatives of politics and economics undermining the thrusts to
get a cure?

What do you think?


 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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It may be true that the more money being spent on researching the problem the more likely someone will develop a cure, but you can't just buy knowledge that doesn't exist yet, someone has to think of it first. Its a very complex problem.
 

Offline NobodySavedMe

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Padi Matlala asked the Naked Scientists:

Billions of dollars are being spent worldwide to find a cure for AIDS. Where are all these efforts headed if we cannot find a cure for AIDS? Are the imperatives of politics and economics undermining the thrusts to
get a cure?

What do you think?

The cure has been found a number of times but competes with the poisons supplied by drug companies at great profit and for the lifetime of the aids patient hence any cure is not welcome.

Belize Hospital for STDs / Dr. George Carr: Treatment of 100 HIV-positive patients resulted in HIV-negative tests after treated with CMV3 (equivilant of Bion) covalent silver; females giving birth, after the experiment, had babies with no HIV antibodies.

ATLAS CONSULTANTS INC., LAS VEGAS / March 10, 2003: E. Coli - killed with CMV3 (equivilant of Bion).

Instituto Genesis West - Provida: Findings show an apparent immune-stimulating response action from covalent silver and a decrease in liver stress, both in the in-vitro and the in-vivo experiment; parasitic forms in the plasma and bacterial activity decreased to zero. The presence of pathogenic Somatids at the beginning of study, decreased when covalent silver was used.


Aids is a largely lifestyle choice and I wish people would stop whining about it.
They know the risks and take the chance.

If you get it.TOUGH.

Malaria kills 6000 a day and the people getting don't have a choice.

But because they don't appear on the tv screen with celebrity endorsements they are ignored and left to die.

You make money from aids symptom relieving medications not from saving malaria victims in Africa.

« Last Edit: 04/06/2008 13:45:53 by NobodySavedMe »
 

Offline rosy

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NobodySavedMe, that is a deeply unintelligent and ill thought out comment.
AIDS is *not* a lifestyle choice for thousands of women in married relationships with men in societies whose social norms allow the men to go out and sleep with other people and then bring the disease home to the marital bed.
Still less is it a lifestyle choice for the children born HIV positive due to their mothers' infected status.

Yes, malaria is a frightful mess, and yes, there should probably be more effort/funds/whatever invested in its prevention and cure. But two wrongs don't make a right.

On a less emotive, and rather more interesting, note, I went to a really interesting research talk by Robert Grubbs (a Nobel prize winning chemist), at which he told us about a really interesting new possible approach to malaria prevention (even fewer side effects than a cure...) which involves interfering with the mosquitos' breeding cycle by introducing their pheromones into the atmosphere and so totally confusing the males.

(Malaria was radically reduced a few decades ago by the use of vast quantities of a pesticide called DDT, measured purely in terms of malaria deaths the programme was a huge success. Sadly DDT is a persistant environmental toxin and it became apparent it was getting into the food chain.)

 

Offline Bored chemist

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NobodySavedMe's other "point" is trash too.
If, as he contends, there were some drug or other threatment that would cure AIDS it would get used.
There are a lot of countries with poor ecconomies. Many of these are, sadly, also greatly affected by HIV/AIDS. This is a disease that generally affects young adults. These people in turn are the people on whom ecconomies largely depend.
There are several countries that, if there were a cure for AIDS would make the stuff for themselves because the consequences of doing so would be a walk in the park compared to the damage done by AIDS. If the big drug companies didn't want to join them - so what?
They could do without the big pharma input.
What do you think would stop them? a patent agreement?

Unfortunately, the asnswer to the original question is that it's difficult.
 

Offline NobodySavedMe

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NobodySavedMe's other "point" is trash too.
If, as he contends, there were some drug or other threatment that would cure AIDS it would get used.
There are a lot of countries with poor ecconomies. Many of these are, sadly, also greatly affected by HIV/AIDS. This is a disease that generally affects young adults. These people in turn are the people on whom ecconomies largely depend.
There are several countries that, if there were a cure for AIDS would make the stuff for themselves because the consequences of doing so would be a walk in the park compared to the damage done by AIDS. If the big drug companies didn't want to join them - so what?
They could do without the big pharma input.
What do you think would stop them? a patent agreement?

Unfortunately, the asnswer to the original question is that it's difficult.

The doctors in poor countries are trained and funded by western pharma companies and are put in place to promote that companies products abroad.

As a result they get paid handsomely.
They will not rock the boat and jeopardize that large income.

Most of these countries are corrupt and you can buy anyone for a few dollars.Doctors are no exception.

They sit on panels and tell their local despot to order this drug or that drug as per their contract.

In india genetically modified seeds are being forced on local farmers.These seeds don't produce any more seeds thus enslaving the population to the seed supplier forever.

Do you really think a tin pot dictator in such countries want to save some diseased/dying/starving citizen?

Wake up.

Look at Burma.

 

Offline BenV

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How do you account for the fact that Pharma companies are facing the problem of generic drugs?  The pharma companies fund the research and testing, then other people in other countries reverse engineer the drugs to make cheaper versions.  This means that pharma companies struggle to get the money back that they spent on R&D.

In your version of the world, this wouldn't happen, because the generics would never get to market past the corrupt doctors.  The fact that they do shows that your imagined version of the world is not real.

If a drug had been developed that could cure HIV/AIDS, it would have been copied and distributed everywhere.  This would, of course, reduce the funding available to test future medicines, as the folks who pay for the research are the ones being ripped off.
 

Offline benep

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Padi Matlala asked the Naked Scientists:

Billions of dollars are being spent worldwide to find a cure for AIDS. Where are all these efforts headed if we cannot find a cure for AIDS? Are the imperatives of politics and economics undermining the thrusts to
get a cure?

What do you think?

The cure has been found a number of times but competes with the poisons supplied by drug companies at great profit and for the lifetime of the aids patient hence any cure is not welcome.

Belize Hospital for STDs / Dr. George Carr: Treatment of 100 HIV-positive patients resulted in HIV-negative tests after treated with CMV3 (equivilant of Bion) covalent silver; females giving birth, after the experiment, had babies with no HIV antibodies.

ATLAS CONSULTANTS INC., LAS VEGAS / March 10, 2003: E. Coli - killed with CMV3 (equivilant of Bion).

Instituto Genesis West - Provida: Findings show an apparent immune-stimulating response action from covalent silver and a decrease in liver stress, both in the in-vitro and the in-vivo experiment; parasitic forms in the plasma and bacterial activity decreased to zero. The presence of pathogenic Somatids at the beginning of study, decreased when covalent silver was used.


Aids is a largely lifestyle choice and I wish people would stop whining about it.
They know the risks and take the chance.

If you get it.TOUGH.

Malaria kills 6000 a day and the people getting don't have a choice.

But because they don't appear on the tv screen with celebrity endorsements they are ignored and left to die.

You make money from aids symptom relieving medications not from saving malaria victims in Africa.


thats not a good thing to say you may not know the person you are having intercorse with has aids if she/he isnt decent enough to tell you and you may be marrid to him/her and trust taht person with your life so i wouldnt say tough and stop whining about it they have a right to whine as much as they want and if you caught im sure you wouldnt be saying that
 

Offline NobodySavedMe

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How do you account for the fact that Pharma companies are facing the problem of generic drugs?  The pharma companies fund the research and testing, then other people in other countries reverse engineer the drugs to make cheaper versions.  This means that pharma companies struggle to get the money back that they spent on R&D.

In your version of the world, this wouldn't happen, because the generics would never get to market past the corrupt doctors.  The fact that they do shows that your imagined version of the world is not real.

If a drug had been developed that could cure HIV/AIDS, it would have been copied and distributed everywhere.  This would, of course, reduce the funding available to test future medicines, as the folks who pay for the research are the ones being ripped off.

Struggling my foot.Record profits a year.$ A TRILLION $ a year.

R&D has been cut and is largely funded by donations from the government and gay groups on fun runs.

In any case just invade any country that reverse engineers the worthless toxic drug and teach the natives a lesson.That is what you want,don't you?
 

Offline grumpy old mare

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Aids is a largely lifestyle choice and I wish people would stop whining about it.
They know the risks and take the chance.

I'm so glad that my friend's two haemophiliac cousins can't read this anymore as they died due to AIDS which they got through necessary blood transfusions (and they had NO choice whatsoever, like many other haemophiliacs!)

"They know the risks and take the chance"

Well - I work in public health, although not specifically in the area of HIV/AIDS - and the one thing I've definitely learned is: NOBODY wants to believe that "it could be me"! And that doesn't just relate to HIV, but to all other STIs as well as driving under the influence of alcohol, using a seat belt etc blabla.


(And if you mean homosexuality and not just "sleeping around" by "lifestyle choice" : a) homosexuality is not a lifestyle "choice", whatever you may believe, some percentage of humans (and, seemingly, of some other mammals, too!) just is born homosexual! Whatever some religions want to make us believe. b) the occurrence of HIV/AIDS in heterosexuals is by now much higher than in homosexuals)


They haven't found a cure for MND (ALS), MS, Alzheimer's, .... yet either, by the way.


Re pharma companies / funding etc. ... I thought the oil and the pharma industries rule the world anyway!
 

Offline NobodySavedMe

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Aids is a largely lifestyle choice and I wish people would stop whining about it.
They know the risks and take the chance.

I'm so glad that my friend's two haemophiliac cousins can't read this anymore as they died due to AIDS which they got through necessary blood transfusions (and they had NO choice whatsoever, like many other haemophiliacs!)

"They know the risks and take the chance"

Well - I work in public health, although not specifically in the area of HIV/AIDS - and the one thing I've definitely learned is: NOBODY wants to believe that "it could be me"! And that doesn't just relate to HIV, but to all other STIs as well as driving under the influence of alcohol, using a seat belt etc blabla.


(And if you mean homosexuality and not just "sleeping around" by "lifestyle choice" : a) homosexuality is not a lifestyle "choice", whatever you may believe, some percentage of humans (and, seemingly, of some other mammals, too!) just is born homosexual! Whatever some religions want to make us believe. b) the occurrence of HIV/AIDS in heterosexuals is by now much higher than in homosexuals)


They haven't found a cure for MND (ALS), MS, Alzheimer's, .... yet either, by the way.


Re pharma companies / funding etc. ... I thought the oil and the pharma industries rule the world anyway!

I said largely a life style choice.I never said it was everyone's own fault.


In any case the amount of people dying from aids is very small compared to the number of people dying from adverse side reactions.In fact more people are killed by the treatment then by the disease.

The recorded medical errors and deaths equate to six jumbo jets falling out of the sky each day, 365 days a year

Since 2001, a recorded 490,000 people have died from properly prescribed drugs in the United States, while 2,996 people died on U.S. soil from terrorism, all in the 9/11 attacks; prescription drugs are therefore 16,400 percent more dangerous than terrorism.

If deaths from over-the-counter drugs are also included, then drug consumption leaps to being 32,000 percent more dangerous than terrorism. And conventional medicine viewed as a whole is 104,700 percent deadlier than terrorism.


Big Pharma spent $12.7 billion promoting and bribing senators its products in 1998. The amount has vastly increased since that time. Do you ever get the feeling that you’re being sold many of these drugs just to make you think that you’re sick with something?

« Last Edit: 18/06/2008 09:41:27 by NobodySavedMe »
 

Offline grumpy old mare

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What life style exactly do you mean??

You're only talking USA, aren't you? Because the statistics you've given have nothing in commong with loads of other countries.

And people are recorded by the type of deaths - so people that have e.g. AIDS-induced (or whatever the correct medical term would be) pneumonia and die of that are recorded of dying of pneumonia! So I wouldn't be too sure about the validity of your statistics (especially since ALL statistics can be prettily bend and adjusted according to the desired outcome....).

Also, of course, in countries like the US and UK, people with HIV are on medication, often keeping AIDS at bay for a long long time, whereas people in poorer countries do not have access to such medication - and they die by the thousands daily!
 

Offline TheHerbaholic

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What percentage of the population in the UK have aids?

Aid's is scary stuff, but how Aids started is interesting though. The most widely accepted scientific theory is that it was started by an African who had intercourse with a genetically mutated chimp. The chimp had aids, so the African caught it off the chimp.
It is possible that it was created in a lab, and somehow got out into the population.

The worst thing though is that you can actually get aids from just oral sex, although it is rare. Many people don't believe that, but google it, its true.
 

paul.fr

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What percentage of the population in the UK have aids?

Aid's is scary stuff, but how Aids started is interesting though. The most widely accepted scientific theory is that it was started by an African who had intercourse with a genetically mutated chimp. The chimp had aids, so the African caught it off the chimp.
It is possible that it was created in a lab, and somehow got out into the population.

The worst thing though is that you can actually get aids from just oral sex, although it is rare. Many people don't believe that, but google it, its true.

and people think I come out with moronic stuff.
 

Offline TheHerbaholic

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What percentage of the population in the UK have aids?

Aid's is scary stuff, but how Aids started is interesting though. The most widely accepted scientific theory is that it was started by an African who had intercourse with a genetically mutated chimp. The chimp had aids, so the African caught it off the chimp.
It is possible that it was created in a lab, and somehow got out into the population.

The worst thing though is that you can actually get aids from just oral sex, although it is rare. Many people don't believe that, but google it, its true.

and people think I come out with moronic stuff.

All what I said then was true. So yes you do come out with moronic stuff...
 

blakestyger

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There is a very simple principle going on here that gets overlooked in the excitement.

In spite of advances such as the eradication worldwide of diseases like smallpox, expectations of a conclusive victory over disease should always appear naive since it flies in the face of a key axiom of Darwinian biology, that is, relentless evolutionary adaptation.

This is something that disease accomplishes far better than humans because it possesses the initiative. Consequently, it's hardly surprising that medicine has proved ineffective against AIDS since the human immunodeficiency virus mutates rapidly - frustrating the development of vaccines and antivirals.
 

paul.fr

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What percentage of the population in the UK have aids?

Aid's is scary stuff, but how Aids started is interesting though. The most widely accepted scientific theory is that it was started by an African who had intercourse with a genetically mutated chimp. The chimp had aids, so the African caught it off the chimp.
It is possible that it was created in a lab, and somehow got out into the population.

The worst thing though is that you can actually get aids from just oral sex, although it is rare. Many people don't believe that, but google it, its true.

and people think I come out with moronic stuff.

All what I said then was true. So yes you do come out with moronic stuff...


OK moron, lets see where you went wrong.

"Aid's is scary stuff, but how Aids started is interesting though. The most widely accepted scientific theory is that it was started by an African who had intercourse with a genetically mutated chimp. The chimp had aids, so the African caught it off the chimp. "

That is total Bo11ocks, the thing that is scary is that you are allowed to have children. For people like you the state should interviene and perform a medical procedure to prevent you having children.
 

Offline ukmicky

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"Aid's is scary stuff, but how Aids started is interesting though. The most widely accepted scientific theory is that it was started by an African who had intercourse with a genetically mutated chimp. The chimp had aids, so the African caught it off the chimp. "




Wow

That is probably one of the most absurd, untrue, ill thought out and stupid things ever posted on this forum. 

If it weren't so absurd and unbelievable i would have probably deleted it.

« Last Edit: 10/08/2008 16:20:26 by ukmicky »
 

paul.fr

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Can I just say sorry to all the morons out there for tarring you all with the same brush as TheHerbaholic. I now understand that you are morons, and TheHerbaholic is totally way beyond you. Sorry,
 

Offline Moron

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Thank you, we are not all like TheHerbaholic you know!
 

Offline TheHerbaholic

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hahahaahaha I'm sorry Moron, if only I could reach your status.

OK it may not have been intercourse, maybe somebody was chopping up a chimp already killed to cook, and cut his finger and the blood mixed with the chimps.

But if I'm the moron, explain how Aids came about in the first place?
 

Offline backgroundwhitenoise

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I'm not going to claim to know how aids started, or why its not cured (as it seems most people in this forum have) can i just ask that if people object to your idea, prove them wrong. For example "TheHerbaholic" instead of throwing around demeaning terms directed at the people who disagree  with you, tell us how you found that out and why its credible information. Thats whats gonna make us believe what you post (or if not believe then mabey respect you for posting it)

(by the way kudos to "nobodeysavedme" for the good arguments)
 

Offline blaze

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Because HIV isn't the cause of AIDS, at least that's what some researchers are saying, and I believe it.

http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/hiv/pdscience88.htm

AIDS is a problem with the immune system, not any one specific virus. Most AIDS patients die of pneumonia or other serious infections - never from the HIV virus that is supposedly killing them.
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Blaze, HIV causes AIDS, which is the destruction of the immune system. A weakened immune system means the body is vulnerable to other infections, many of which can result in death.

HIV deniers are among the most despicable rejectors of scientific medicine. Please don't fall prey to their propaganda. Here are some web pages debunking the virusmyth.com claims:
http://www.thebody.com/content/art6541.html
http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/Fatigue/Current/Q196020.html
 

Offline blaze

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Well then, two years ago I had "AIDS" with chronic Lyme.

I have Lyme, babesiosis, bartonella, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Typhus, and staph so far, along with parvo, EBV, HHV6 - but I'm HIV negative, so what happened?
 

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