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Author Topic: Missing Science  (Read 4958 times)

Offline Raedon

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Missing Science
« on: 28/11/2004 02:06:28 »
Where is the science that studies conciousness?
  Why is there no science that deals with the mind?

  People study these things and I read little bits about the parts of the brain etc. but there seems to be less "Science" on the part that created the word, "Science" then everything else around us.

  It's like a Taboo subject or something.


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Offline Alexh

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #1 on: 28/11/2004 14:03:25 »
Its funny - I was just thinking the same thing.

Science is really the search for anomalies or areas where experiments disagree with our predictions from the current version of our physical laws. In the case of physics we spend billions tracking down these slight anomalies in order to further our understanding of physical law.

But consciousness sticks out like a sore thumb. We haven't got a clue what it is or how it works.  Of course, if Roger Penrose newbielink:http://www.friesian.com/penrose.htm [nonactive] is right, the search for quantum gravity is the same as the search for consciousness so.....
« Last Edit: 28/11/2004 14:57:33 by Alexh »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #2 on: 28/11/2004 17:25:15 »
Isn't psychology or psychiatry a science of being sentient ?

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Offline Raedon

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #3 on: 28/11/2004 18:28:11 »
psychology doesn't tie into "how it works"  It's more like, "most people are this way so we study the observation not the mechanism."

 

Offline Ultima

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #4 on: 28/11/2004 20:16:40 »
:P What do you think my subject is all about. Artificial Intelligence isn't just about trying to make terminator esk killing machines.... It's mostly about trying to work out what humans do and mean in relation to reasoning, cognition and awareness then emulate or model this in machines. Along with psychology and biology most of the bases are covered.

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Offline OldMan

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #5 on: 29/11/2004 02:30:00 »
Interesting to see this talk of conciousness the same day someone was telling me about an experiment some 60 vor more years ago. Whoever the experimenters were had a theory tht all subconcious is connected. They stuck a different groups of of monkeys on seperate islands, who pretty much stripped it of food. They then dropped cocconuts which had been soaked in diesel on the beach of one island where a few monkeys were. The monkeys had bit of a sniff but realised they couldn't eat it, eventually one started washing the cocconuts and so did the others. Hey presto eddible cocconuts.

On one of the other islands, once again issolated and not with in view of the first island, they did the same thing with the cocconuts but this time the all the monkeys immediately began washing them even though they couldn't have seen the others do this.

Makes me wonder though if some of them had perhaps previously lived in an environment where they might have seen this behaviour. Unfortunately without more info its hard to say, but just thought I'd mention it out of interest.

Tim
 

Offline Ultima

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #6 on: 29/11/2004 10:54:48 »
The thing is if it were humans on the islands no one would think that anything special, as washing something is the obvious thing to do if you have ever washed something before. Why would monkeys be so much different?

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Offline DrN

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #7 on: 29/11/2004 21:53:12 »
the theory that our consciousness are all connected is quite interesting. its difficult to form an opinion I think, some people can undoubtedly connect to other peoples minds, a lot of people can't.

there have been lots of studies on this, whether you call it science or not depends on your definition I suppose. one i remember was putting people in a room with something like a video camera or something and randomly watching the people, or not, then asking the subjects to say if they felt they were being watched. if i remember correctly most got it right, including the ones who weren't being watched. not exactly proof, but enough of these experiments can make you feel there is something in it.

There have been lots of consciousness experiments started, but then finished through general incredulity and lack of funding. I think its one of those 'the world is flat' things, no-one is willing to believe otherwise, so no-one will find the research into it. personally i don't think we'll uncover the secrets of the conscious for a long long time anyway.

psychology is more of 'why we do what we do' and is strongly related to social context. its behavioural science basically, so still a science, but more linked to the conscious than the hard 'biology' science of understanding how our body and mind works.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #8 on: 29/11/2004 22:12:46 »
I'm just guessing here....but surely the answer to how our mind works is nigh on impossible isn't it ?....surely it's a case of our thoughts are the consequence of more of the sum of our parts. If we were to crack exactly how the mind works would it not be the most fudamental discovery of humankind ?

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Offline Raedon

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #9 on: 29/11/2004 23:56:48 »
Yea, I've thought about that to Neilep..  If we knew how consiousness worked we would probably know how everything worked because it's something just as big and just as strange as understanding god space.


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Offline gsmollin

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #10 on: 30/11/2004 02:27:38 »
Collective unconscious: Jung
 

Offline ebzZzZ

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #11 on: 30/11/2004 18:31:51 »
well considering we are a collective of our cells i do not
see why there is not a collective conciouness in the Maya
style waiting to be discovered and some would say it doesn't
need to be discovered.
 

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Re: Missing Science
« Reply #11 on: 30/11/2004 18:31:51 »

 

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