# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?  (Read 7258 times)

#### Alan McDougall

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##### What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?
« on: 28/06/2008 16:48:26 »
Hello,

Empty space is real but does not exist as matter!

How big is a point? Size does not apply, right? Points are dimensionless. Thus the orginal non - dimensional zero point singularity must have contained all potential empty space and also contained within its potential all of the universe.

In this early realm, we need to think in terms of state, such as void, space, time, matter energy etc etc.

If the void of outer space is physical but non-material, with no possible landmarks, how could it represent a fixed frame?

Einstein said there is no absolute space; space is an extension of matter. Space and empty space is not the same thing. Space is not primary, nor fundamental, it does not exist by itself, and it is a product, just as matter and time are products. Space/energy is dynamic, it tells matter where to go and matter tells it how to curve. Empty void/ space, on the other hand, is primary, non-derivable. There is flat empty space, and then there is curved space-time, or what is known as the observable universe. Einstein's The void of outer space is the seat to an all-relating process, which he called space-time.

The void of outer space does not exist as matter; it is before space-time, before the Big Bang, Inflation, a CMB... etc. It is not matter, therefore, notions like motion, size or duration are not applicable, and time does not apply. It is outside the rules of space-time.

Energy is finite; this is the reason why nothing with mass can reach the speed of light. Not even light can reach the speed of light! As a photon reaches speed 'c' its waves are flattened, it loses its wavelength (energy) and goes back into being The void of outer space. Slow down the system and it reappears as required by local space-time conditions.

For a single photon to reach the speed of light, the whole universe would need to turn into that one photon. Because energy is finite and the speed of light needs to be kept constant for fields to exist, there is time dilation and space contraction for material systems moving at relativistic speeds.

"This shows us two things: you cannot have parts of the infinite and the infinite is indivisible. But indeed, even if the One is more like a Principle, and the one is undivided, then the whole universe will be undivided either in quantity or in form." (Aristotle, 340BC)

"A substance cannot be produced from anything else: it will therefore be its own cause, that is, its essence necessarily involves existence, or existence appertains to the nature of it." (Spinoza, 1673)

Everything that exists has always existed (My quote)

Reduce yourself to the size of the smallest particle and what do you get? You get empty space. Matter is made of fields and fields are little more than apparitions. Fields are shapes in empty space, lines of force. Matter is an illusion, but that is reality. Matter in space-time is the one drawing the shapes, not some creator or designer. The Universe designs itself. Particle creation occurs according to local space-time’s energetic or thermodynamically requirements. Reality is process and process happens as space-time.

Matter is only temporary, it has a beginning and an ending, and it is subject to time (change). Things are because of the void of outer space, The void of outer space is what gives them their temporary being status. The Real, which which 'is', is the void of outer space. Reality, on the other hand, simply refers to the process of becoming.

Where does a fundamental partcle go when it decays and vanishes from the universe?

Quote
I eddited it to try and make it make more sense I hope!
[/color]

My problem is that an absolute void empty of everything must differ somehow from normal energetic space-time. Maybe I am just talking nonsense!

Alan

« Last Edit: 29/06/2008 00:27:48 by chris »

#### ukmicky

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##### Re: What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?
« Reply #1 on: 28/06/2008 17:02:16 »
Quote
Where does a fundamental partcle go when it decays and vanishes from the universe?

It dosent really vanish because it would returns to what it was initially, energy.

The law of conservation of energy states that energy can not be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another.

#### Alan McDougall

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##### Re: What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?
« Reply #2 on: 28/06/2008 17:10:47 »

Quote
It dosent really vanish because it would returns to what it was initially, energy.

Return how? when? This would give substance to the steady state universe idea of Fred Hoyle.

I do not agree!

#### lightarrow

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##### Re: What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?
« Reply #3 on: 28/06/2008 18:46:55 »

Empty space is real but does not exist as matter!

How big is a point? Size does not apply, right? Points are dimensionless. Same with empty space, it is dimensionless
Empty space it's not dimensionless. It has 4 dimensions and it's called spacetime.
The rest of what you wrote is obscure to me.

#### Alan McDougall

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##### Re: What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?
« Reply #4 on: 28/06/2008 19:32:03 »
Hello,

I have modified post to try to get my point over more clearly! Modifications enclosed in " "

Empty space is real but does not exist as matter!

How big is a point? Size does not apply, right? Points are dimensionless. "Thus the orginal non - dimensional zero point singularity must have contained all potential empty space and also contained within its potential all of the universe".

In this early realm, we need to think in terms of state, such as void, space, time, matter energy etc etc.

"Normal enegetic outer space" is physical but non-material, with no possible landmarks, how could it represent a fixed frame?

Einstein said there is no absolute space; space is an extension of matter. Space and empty space is not the same thing. Space is not primary, nor fundamental, it does not exist by itself, and it is a product, just as matter and time are products. Space/energy is dynamic, it tells matter where to go and matter tells it how to curve. "Empty void/ space, on the other hand, is a total vacuum, primary, non-derivable.

There is the "void of empty space", and then there is curved energtic space or space-time we normally talk about, or what is known as the observable universe".

Einstein's  outer space is the seat to an all-relating process, which he called space-time.

The total vacuum void beyond space-time, does not exist as matter; it must be before space-time, before the Big Bang, Inflation, a CMB. etc. It is not matter, therefore, notions like motion, size or duration are not applicable, and time does not apply. It is outside the rules of space-time.

Energy is finite; this is the reason why nothing with mass can reach the speed of light. Not even light can reach the speed of light! As a photon reaches speed 'c' its waves are flattened, it loses its wavelength (energy) and goes back into being. "The vacuum/void  beyond normal space-time must always exists as an infinite reality"

For a single photon to reach the speed of light, the whole universe would need to turn into that one photon. Because energy is finite and the speed of light needs to be kept constant for fields to exist, there is time dilation and space contraction for material systems moving at relativistic speeds.

"This shows us two things: you cannot have parts of the infinite and the infinite is indivisible. But indeed, even if the One is more like a Principle, and the one is undivided, then the whole universe will be undivided either in quantity or in form." (Aristotle, 340BC)

"A substance cannot be produced from anything else: it will therefore be its own cause, that is, its essence necessarily involves existence, or existence appertains to the nature of it." (Spinoza, 1673)

"Everything that exists has always existed" (My quote)

Reduce yourself to the size of the smallest particle and what do you get? You get empty space. Matter is made of fields and fields are little more than apparitions. Fields are shapes in empty space, lines of force. Matter is an illusion, but that is reality. Matter in space-time is the one drawing the shapes, not some creator or designer. The Universe designs itself. Particle creation occurs according to local space-time’s energetic or thermodynamically requirements. Reality is process and process happens as space-time.

Matter is only temporary, it has a beginning and an ending, and it is subject to time (change). Things are because of the vacuum /void of space-time. The void/vacuum of space-time is what gives them matter temporary being status. The Real, which which 'is', is the vacuum/void beyond outer space that is eternal and infinite. Reality is simply a process of becoming.

Where does a fundamental particle go when it decays and vanishes from the universe?

Taking out matter and energy from the universe I see space-time equating to universe. The total super-vacuum-void-emptiness must be everywhere and everything and its is this that I see equating to all existence.

Quote
I edited it to try and make it make more sense I hope!
[/color]

My problem is that an absolute void empty of everything must differ somehow from normal energetic space-time. Maybe I am just talking nonsense!

Alan

#### Alan McDougall

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##### What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?
« Reply #5 on: 01/07/2008 10:55:29 »
I will simplify,

There is Alan Guths space time universe, which is home to us, and there is the infinite nothingness void, before there was matter/energy.time/ constance. Or what we term spacetime.

Because a vacuum totally empty void is not matter it must have expanded into infinity or became existence, followed by the Alan Guth universe.

The void I propose is not the universe it is that which the universe expands into

#### Soul Surfer

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##### What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?
« Reply #6 on: 01/07/2008 23:17:56 »
Most of this is rubbish written more for poetic and mystical effect than a true scientific understanding. For a start light does travel at the speed of light.  The rest is just not worth the effort of tearing to pieces.

#### Alan McDougall

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##### What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?
« Reply #7 on: 02/07/2008 02:41:04 »
Soulsurfer

Rubbish according to your infinite intellect!!!!

And not a nice comment fron a supposed seniour member of the forum.

What spped exactly does light then travel 300 000 kilometrs per second, what is true "C"???

And what is the unuverse expanding into. "Nothing" this is all I was trying to conyey

#### Flyberius

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##### What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?
« Reply #8 on: 02/07/2008 03:27:33 »
It isnt expanding "into" anything.  Its meaningless to think of things outside our universe.
It should not concern us.

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### What is the absolute void of space, energy, time size and matter made from?
« Reply #8 on: 02/07/2008 03:27:33 »