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Author Topic: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?  (Read 38220 times)

Offline thedoc

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« on: 15/07/2008 18:15:18 »
Iíd like to know if there are any life forms: plant, animal, fungus, whatever that are effectively immortal?
Asked by Geoff Blackwell, Queensland, Australia

                                          Hear this Question on our Podcast
« Last Edit: 22/07/2008 19:49:11 by BenV »


 

Offline thedoc

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #1 on: 15/07/2008 18:15:18 »
We spoke to Dr John Nudds, Senior Lecturer in Palaeontology at the University of Manchester to find the answer...

One of the longest living vertebrate animals, and many listeners will be aware of this, is the giant land tortoise.  Thereís a nice story about Captain Cook, the explorer, presenting one of these animals to the queen of Tonga in 1788.  This animal eventually died in 1966, 188 years later.  The animal was probably mature by the time he collected it.

If we turn our attention to the plant kingdom we can multiply these figures by a factor of ten.  Thereís a well-known example of the bristlecone pine trees which grow in the rocky mountains of North America.  These are well-known to live for over 4000 years.  I think the recordís about 4600 years.

Again these figures have recently been doubled by research in Sweden.  Scientists here came across a Norway spruce whose root system had been growing for 9550 years!

If we now move onto some of the simpler life forms then the numbers do start to get really big.  In 1995 a sample of bacteria was found in a stomach of a bee which was encased in amber which was dated at between 25 and 40 million years old.  These bacteria were found in a state of suspended animation.  They had to be reanimated in the laboratory.  In scientific terms they were in what we would call a crypto-biotic state.  It means the cells remained alive but none of the life processes were being carried out.  They didnít feed or reproduce so whether you consider this as immortality or not is open to question.

To answer the question, the sad fact is that all cells do decompose with time.  All cells age and all cells eventually die so sadly, as yet no life form has evolved that is immortal.
« Last Edit: 22/07/2008 19:52:08 by BenV »
 

Offline atrox

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #2 on: 15/07/2008 19:12:34 »
Hi There!

I think, in fact every liveform, which reproduces only through asexual Methods is immortal. They split and split ans split and split... and all the products are based on one origin.
There will be no mother cell thats getting old and dies, but two daughter cells which are living on until they split again...

bye
aj
 

Offline RD

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #3 on: 15/07/2008 19:22:49 »
Hi There!

I think, in fact every liveform, which reproduces only through asexual Methods is immortal. They split and split ans split and split... and all the products are based on one origin.
There will be no mother cell thats getting old and dies, but two daughter cells which are living on until they split again...

bye
aj

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis
 

Offline chris

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #4 on: 16/07/2008 00:26:31 »
Hi There!

I think, in fact every liveform, which reproduces only through asexual Methods is immortal. They split and split ans split and split... and all the products are based on one origin.
There will be no mother cell thats getting old and dies, but two daughter cells which are living on until they split again...

bye
aj

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis

RD - please try to include some content with an answer, rather than just links, as this is more likely to stimulate a discussion.

Thanks

Chris
 

Offline RD

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #5 on: 16/07/2008 03:40:14 »
Atrox could also be describing cloning.
Parthenogenic offsping are not clones of their mother.
Only clones could potentially be an immortal organism,
e.g. a plant which replicates by vegetative propagation.

Even then radioactivity or viruses could modify a clone's DNA creating genetic diversity.

The use of the word "immortal" is highly optimistic: more than 99% of the species which have existed are extinct.

Tardigrades are described in the NS article below as "indestructible", but "most resilient" would be more accurate...



image source

http://space.newscientist.com/article/mg16422095.100-indestructible.html
« Last Edit: 17/07/2008 02:42:50 by RD »
 

Offline chris

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #6 on: 16/07/2008 17:32:23 »
Pardon my rudeness, but that looks like a micropenis!
 

Offline RD

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #7 on: 16/07/2008 20:29:25 »
The shrunken dormant tardigrade above reminded me of the Clyde Auditorium...

 

image source

Images of plump tardigrades can be found here.


Quote
Tardigrades In Space or "TARDIS" is the first research project to evaluate the ability of tardigrades to survive under open space conditions. TARDIS is one of the projects within the Biopan-6 research platform provided by European Space Agency (ESA), and will be sent into space with the russian FOTON-M3 mission.
http://tardigradesinspace.blogspot.com/  (Obviously a Dr Who fan)

« Last Edit: 16/07/2008 21:05:17 by RD »
 

Offline chris

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #8 on: 17/07/2008 00:04:34 »
How long are those tardigrades supposed to live for then?
 

Offline RD

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #9 on: 17/07/2008 00:38:44 »
Quote
tardigrades have been shown to survive nearly one decade in a dry state...
While in this state their metabolism lowers to less than 0.01% of what is normal and their water content can drop to 1% of normal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrada


Quote
The active life of a tardigrade may last only a few months,
although it may be spread over several years if interrupted by cryptobiotic [dry state] periods...
Tardigrades exhibit both sexual and asexual reproduction.
http://pathfinderscience.net/tardigrades/cbackground.cfm


« Last Edit: 17/07/2008 16:28:22 by RD »
 

Offline RD

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #10 on: 19/07/2008 16:46:35 »
Another contender for the worlds hardiest organism is "Conan the Bacterium"...

Quote
Deinococcus radiodurans is an extremophilic bacterium, one of the most radioresistant organisms known. It can survive cold, dehydration, vacuum, and acid, and is therefore known as a polyextremophile and has been listed as "the world's toughest bacterium" in The Guinness Book Of World Records.[citation needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinococcus_radiodurans

« Last Edit: 19/07/2008 16:48:21 by RD »
 

Offline chris

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #11 on: 19/07/2008 23:32:08 »
Interestingly I interviewed a terrific scientist called Miroslav Radman who published a paper a couple of years back in which he explained how this bacterium manages to survive in corned beef tins that have been irradiated with a dose of ionising radiation sufficient to kill a human many times over. That's why it was called Deinococcus radiodurans when it was first identified about 50 years ago.

The organism has multiple (8) copies of its genome which is uses rather like a RAID backup system. When the DNA is damaged by, for instance, ionising radiation, the intact pieces of the shattered individual genomes produce single-stranded extensions of their DNA message which links up with complementary single strands from other bits of the genome. The chances of all 8 genomes have a double strand break in exactly the same place is very low, so eventually a working copy of the entire genome is reassembled, restoring function to the organism. This single working copy is then used to regenerate the other 7 backup copies in preparation for the next brush with a corned beef can!

Chris
 

Offline RD

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Re: QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #12 on: 20/07/2008 21:30:00 »
Professor Radman working with radiation is fair example of so-called nominative determinism, these are better...

Dr Bonnie Beaver, gynecologist.
Lord Brain, leading neurologist.
Dr Dick Chopp, urologist (specialises in Peyronie's disease).
Frances Crook, director of the Howard League for Penal Reform.
Lord Justice Judge, British High Court judge.
Dr Looney, psychiatrist.
Cardinal Sin, former Archbishop of Manila.
Anna Smashnova the Israeli tennis player.
Dr Weedon, urologist.

[I'm sure there is a Police Constable called Constable in the UK, but I can't find a reference].
« Last Edit: 24/07/2008 03:51:33 by RD »
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #13 on: 24/07/2008 02:10:05 »
No all earth life and indeed the whole universe is subject to relentless entropy anttend to dissapate into total disorder over time.

Of course living for 10 00 years for us would be considered as immortal. But in the grand order of things absolutely impossible.

Energy always morphs from hot to cold, order to disorder. We could delay death, but overcome it completely an impossibility only found as a possibility in religion
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #14 on: 24/07/2008 02:12:37 »
RD

Quote
Cardinal Sin, former Archbishop of Manila.
Anna Smashnova the Israeli tennis player

"Cardinal Sin" is he the chief of all sinners, just kidding!
 

Offline Andrew Walsh

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #15 on: 30/07/2008 03:17:48 »
The longest living clone plant is almost 5 times older that Norway spruce. It's Lomatia tasmanica, common name "Kingís lomatia" named after Denny King who discovered it. It's found in Tasmania, Australia. See
newbielink:http://www.dpiw.tas.gov.au/inter.nsf/Attachments/SSKA-756W2H/ [nonactive]$FILE/Lomatia%20tasmanica.pdf
and
newbielink:http://www1.parks.tas.gov.au/veg/lomatia/lomatia.html [nonactive].
 

Offline Don_1

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #16 on: 26/08/2008 17:21:29 »
Hi There!

I think, in fact every liveform, which reproduces only through asexual Methods is immortal. They split and split ans split and split... and all the products are based on one origin.
There will be no mother cell thats getting old and dies, but two daughter cells which are living on until they split again...

bye
aj

I would agree with this, even if there is some change in the genetics of the sister cells, they would still be from one original cell, hence the original did not die, nor were the sister cells born. It's like a unicellular plant/animal continuing to grow by increasing the number of cells, not as one whole body, but as a dismembered body in which each cell is capable of self support and self duplication. I don't see this as cloning, but as growing.
 

Offline tr1

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #17 on: 02/10/2008 08:02:18 »
So in theory, if I take a cutting of my houseplant every 20 years and pass the new clone(s) down the generations under the same circumstances, could my plant live indefinetly?
 

Offline Don_1

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #18 on: 02/10/2008 10:24:56 »
Yes, I think so.

Plants such as the strawberry do this naturally. The plant can reproduce in the usual sexual manner by crosspollination, fruiting and employing the services a bird or insect to move the seed to a new location, where a new genetic plant will grow.

But the plant can also reproduce asexually by growing a 'runner' which will root some 15 or more cms from the original root. This 'new' plant continues to draw its nutrition from the original root stock until the new root is capable of supporting the already developing plant. The runner then dies off and the result is two genetically identical plants.

In essence, this is not a new plant, but the same plant growing a new top before it grows a new root. It is the usual method employed by strawberry producers to increase their plant stock with a plant which will produce exactly the same results year after year. The original plant from which these 'new' plants are cultivated are disposed of, since they will not produce so much fruit in their second year as they did in the first.


(Taken from gardenaction.co.uk)
You can see here across the center of the picture a runner from the left hand plant. It already has top growth, but has not put down any root. The plant is feeding from the original rootstock.

At the top of the picture is a 'new' plant which has put down it's own root. The runner will die off to leave two separate but genetically identical plants. In fact the plant will send out a number of runners in different directions. You could say that this is the plants equivalent of moving house, or migration. The runners find a new patch of soil which, with any luck, will be more nutritious than the soil it has been drawing from for the past few months and the more 'new' plants, the better the chances of at least one of them successfully overwintering. The plant is doing what it has to do to ensure it's survival. This process goes on year after year, the original plant, therefore, never truly dies, it merely takes up a new residence.
 

Offline ouabache

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #19 on: 03/10/2008 07:02:50 »
I'm honestly surprised that no one has brought up HeLa cells (immortal cancer cells that many labs have used for research).  Yes, they aren't technically alive in the normal sense of the word but the cancer cells can divide an unlimited number of times without any signs of stopping.
 

Offline Supercryptid

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #20 on: 18/12/2008 09:33:41 »
An old topic, but I found something quite interesting that is relevant.

Apparently, there is a species of jellyfish called Turritopsis nutricula that is, in theory, immortal. The sexually mature medusa form of the species can actually revert to the sexually immature polyp stage. I guess it can then transform back into the medusa stage and continue the cycle indefinitely (as long as it can find food and avoid being killed, that is).

http://8e.devbio.com/preview_article.php?ch=2&id=6
 

Offline ramtarun

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #21 on: 22/12/2008 19:36:18 »
Not found yet,although slight change in definition of "life" may let us include microbes and virus in the list.
 

Offline johnson039

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #22 on: 23/12/2008 05:12:20 »
i'd just read a book about the quantum physics and some other theories concerning about that, i read an interpretation called 'Many-worlds interpretation'(also known as 'parallel universe theory', 'multiverse'). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation [nofollow]
 If that is true, then human (who have consciousness) are basically immortal. Because if you are dead, your consciousness will be basically shifted to another 3-dimension and in that another 3d world, you experience the probability of not dying.
 

Offline yor_on

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #23 on: 26/12/2008 12:28:45 »
Some are, perhaps?
Don't really know, but a very good question...

Awh sorry, read the banner again.

' Are any organisms immortal? '

Thought it said
' Are any orgasms immoral?'

My fault, need glasses, or a 'cleaner' mind?
Probably both:)

 

Offline Freeholder

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #24 on: 30/12/2008 18:17:15 »
Just for fun, let's add the spiritual to the question 'are some life forms immortal?'  As usual, a state of self-consciousness has to be a part of the question when the spiritual realm is added...   When the biological entity dies and 'goes the way of all flesh' and returns to dust, is there a post-mortal consciousness that persists beyond the mortal body?  If so, then the original question of effectively immortal becomes more speculative when taken beyond this mortal coil.   So here is another questions:  Do human clones have separate souls?  Of course the answer is yes, cf. identical twins as separate but equal.  Do self-conscious animals (gorillas, dogs, grey parrots, elephants, humans, etc) have souls?  Self-consciousness doesn't necessarily imply souls, I think. And yet, the last great commandment made by Jesus before his Ascension was to preach the gospel to every creature. Why, if souls are only for humans?  Do dogs go to heaven?  Well, heaven without dogs, cats, etc would not be much of a heaven for me.
 

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QotW - 08.07.20 - Are any organisms immortal?
« Reply #24 on: 30/12/2008 18:17:15 »

 

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