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Author Topic: What is the composition of fire?  (Read 17179 times)

Offline damocles

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #25 on: 29/06/2011 17:46:11 »
Quote
Gas... plasma... still an infrared energy... I don't understand if you are either challenging the debate, or giving your penny in?

OK. 'Twas originally intended as just putting my penny in. The original subject referred to the "composition" of fire, which would normally be a reference to any material content rather than radiation output.

But I will rise to the challenge.

Much of the radiative output isn't infrared energy, though some of it is. But the fact that (most) flames are visible means that fire typically involves visible as well as infrared light energy output.
 

Offline Mr. Data

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #26 on: 29/06/2011 19:30:46 »
It says someone has posted.... I don't see this poster's post?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #27 on: 29/06/2011 21:34:20 »
Mr Data,
Could you stop talking bollocks please?
Imatfall is perfectly correct. Fire is a process.
That process happens to give out IR, but I also give out IR- yet I am not a fire.
Your assertion that "Fire is just infrared light." is plainly wrong.
Re.
"If my chemistry suits me well, ch4 is the greenhouse gas"
The greenhouse gas effect is physics not chemistry.

"They are atomic."
While there are generally free atoms in flames, they are a long way from the whole story. In fact a flame composed entirely of atoms is not possible, so they are hardly fundamental to the issue of what a fire is.

you say "you ask what fire is made of, and in it's most simplest terms, it is an infrared light, as I have explained. And proved." when you have proved nothing of the sort.

If you carry on in this way you will probably get banned from the site for trolling.
 

Offline Mr. Data

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #28 on: 29/06/2011 21:45:34 »
I am not talking bollocks. I admitted fire was a process, but I proclaimed the state of matter was of infrared-type: This is what was questioned, and now I am threatened by another member without all the relevent facts. Well, let us leave it at then. I know when I am not welcome.... (even though I contributed to the physics)!
 

Offline Geezer

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #29 on: 29/06/2011 21:59:42 »

and now I am threatened by another member


Mr Data,

I don't think Bored Chemist threatened you at all, but he did give you very sound advice.
 

Offline Dr. Junix

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #30 on: 30/06/2011 00:48:09 »
well then how do you explain St. Elmo's Fire? It doesn't have the process of combustion as you say.

Also, I think lightning or electricity can be associated or identified as fire.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #31 on: 30/06/2011 07:09:26 »
" I proclaimed the state of matter was of infrared-type"
For a start, that's a lie. You claimed "Fire is just infrared light".
Also it makes no sense since infra red isn't a type of state of matter. That#s talking bollocks again.
And then you said you had been threatened.
Well, by whom?
I don't have the power to ban you.
So your talk of a threat is more bollocks.
Would you please stop it.


 

Offline Dr. Junix

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #32 on: 30/06/2011 07:36:28 »
i think, fire has no absolute chemical composition just like electricity. to create fire, you do not need to follow some chemical rules like creating water which you can easily say as H2O.

And as for my saying that electricity could be associated or identified as fire is that they both share the same characteristics meaning they both burn, generate heat and generate light! It is probably the only element that is in its purest form.

 

Offline imatfaal

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #33 on: 30/06/2011 10:41:59 »
well then how do you explain St. Elmo's Fire? It doesn't have the process of combustion as you say.
Also, I think lightning or electricity can be associated or identified as fire.

St Elmo's fire does produce light in a very similar manner to non-sooty flames.  The coronal discharge in an electic field creates a small amount of ionisation of the air around the sharp tip of a grounded conductor.  This very weakly ionised plasma/gas glows with the characteristic spookly blueish white light of st elmos fire - which I must admit that, even when you understand the process, is still disconcerting when you first see it.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #34 on: 30/06/2011 20:18:26 »
well then how do you explain St. Elmo's Fire? It doesn't have the process of combustion as you say.

Also, I think lightning or electricity can be associated or identified as fire.
I explain it by pointing out that, just because something has the word "fire" in the name doesn't mean it's really fire.
 

Offline Dr. Junix

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #35 on: 07/07/2011 09:20:18 »
nice link Bored Chemist.. but your youtube link doesn't explain in detail how fire works...nice dancing though...
 

Offline CZARCAR

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #36 on: 07/07/2011 20:48:18 »
ch4 + o2= co2 + h2o. @ the = sign the flame exists. Is there a difference in the mass on the left side [ch4+o2] of the = sign from the right side [co2+h2o]?  ASSUME THE EQUATION IS PROPERLY BALANCED,sorry.

Yes... combustion. If my chemistry suits me well, ch4 is the greenhouse gas... a temperature effect on objects, o2 is the oxygen. As you will notice, these are not fundamental effects. They are atomic. If you want to know the fundamental effects, you ask what fire is made of, and in it's most simplest terms, it is an infrared light, as I have explained. And proved.
So if we weigh the fuel be4 the burn & the gasses after the burn they would be equal & the only definition for the flame would be massless infrared?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #37 on: 08/07/2011 06:59:15 »
ch4 + o2= co2 + h2o. @ the = sign the flame exists. Is there a difference in the mass on the left side [ch4+o2] of the = sign from the right side [co2+h2o]?  ASSUME THE EQUATION IS PROPERLY BALANCED,sorry.

Yes... combustion. If my chemistry suits me well, ch4 is the greenhouse gas... a temperature effect on objects, o2 is the oxygen. As you will notice, these are not fundamental effects. They are atomic. If you want to know the fundamental effects, you ask what fire is made of, and in it's most simplest terms, it is an infrared light, as I have explained. And proved.
So if we weigh the fuel be4 the burn & the gasses after the burn they would be equal & the only definition for the flame would be massless infrared?

No, because Mr Data is wrong. His is a silly definition.
 

Offline mlarsen77

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #38 on: 08/07/2011 07:15:15 »
What is fire made of....?   Fire as you see it (energy in the form of light)? Or, what is comprised resulting in fire?  4 components are required for fire to exist (together)...... heat, fuel, oxygen (air), and a chemical chain reaction. In that order...... It was formerly known as the fire triangle, but fire tetrahedron is the proper term as the fourth element being the chain reaction is what enables, and sustains fire buy maintaining heat which seperates gasses from the fuel source and so on.
 

Offline mlarsen77

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #39 on: 08/07/2011 07:17:07 »
I do not have a degree......didnt even finish college......but I know fire is not made of light...... Light is a form of energy released by the chemical chain reaction.
 

Offline Dr. Junix

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #40 on: 11/07/2011 01:17:56 »
What is the composition of fire?

I think we have taken the discussion into the wrong direction. With a simple question as that we do not even need to create an equation. Fire doesn't have a definite chemical composition because anything that is flammable can cause fire. It ain't a process either, it is the effect of the process called burning.
 

Offline CZARCAR

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #41 on: 11/07/2011 01:51:12 »
the atoms may glow as the electrons jump shells but radiance is radiance & it has no mass?
 

Offline Dr. Junix

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #42 on: 11/07/2011 06:50:58 »
no.. fire has no mass.. same as electricity.. you cannot measure the it's mass..
 

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What is the composition of fire?
« Reply #42 on: 11/07/2011 06:50:58 »

 

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