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Author Topic: Barter for Beer  (Read 5155 times)

Offline RD

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Barter for Beer
« on: 16/08/2008 18:34:18 »
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Drinkers in Edgefield, near Holt, are being offered the chance to barter their home-grown produce for free pints.

Anything that can be added to its traditional food menu will be considered, with the amount of pints, meals or vouchers offered in return linked to the size, quantity and quality of the items presented.

A sign on display inside the pub says: “If you grow, breed, shoot or steal anything that may look at home on our menu, then bring it in and let’s do a deal.”...

A North Norfolk council environmental officer said: “We need to look carefully at how pubs can make sure what they’re doing is safe for customers and within the law. There is a difference between surplus game from a shoot and half a deer that may be a roadkill.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4535398.ece


 

Offline AllenG

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« Reply #1 on: 16/08/2008 18:50:43 »
I trade vegetables, herbs, eggs, etc, from the family farm with a local restaurant for meals. 
I much prefer to toss veggies in a basket to cooking and cleaning the kitchen.
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #2 on: 16/08/2008 20:13:01 »
I trade vegetables, herbs, eggs, etc, from the family farm with a local restaurant for meals. 

Does the restaurant send 17.5% of your veggies to the V.A.T. man ?   :)
 

Offline AllenG

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« Reply #3 on: 17/08/2008 00:50:48 »
I trade vegetables, herbs, eggs, etc, from the family farm with a local restaurant for meals. 

Does the restaurant send 17.5% of your veggies to the V.A.T. man ?   :)
Good ol' US of A doesn't have a V.A.T.
But that is about how much I tip.
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #4 on: 17/08/2008 09:42:25 »
My apologies for being Eurocentric AllenG.

There is "sales tax" in most states in the USA, the equivalent of V.A.T. in UK,
(although less than the extortionate 17.5% we have to pay in Blighty).
« Last Edit: 17/08/2008 10:01:02 by RD »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #5 on: 17/08/2008 11:39:59 »
Ah, but I bet you don't pay tax on tax. That's the situation here with petrol. A tax is added, then a second tax is calculated on the price including the first tax. Talk about taking 2 bites of the cherry!

Plus, there's now talk of a 3rd green tax on petrol to try to price people out of 4x4s.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #6 on: 17/08/2008 14:09:55 »
I'm not sure but I think that HMRC would treat the barter as payment and would not only charge the bar VAT but also charge you income tax on the value of the goods. After all, if you were a farmer then exchanging veg etc would be your normal income.Just because you are doing it on a smaller scale wouldn't bother them.
Speaking of bars, like the case with petrol I buy drinks and pay VAT on the duty. I think that the US has the same state of afairs wher liquor is taxed, then taxed again with sales tax.

More interestingly I gather the US says that they don't have taxation without representation. Do children who are too young to vote get exempted from sales tax? Are sweets and comics tax free? I realise that some might think that children are represented indirectly by their parents but there are two holes in that argument. Some adults are not entitled to vote- (felons and the mentally ill etc) so their children are unrepresented.
Also, I can easily see circumstances where the child's view will not coincide with the parents' opinion.
 

Offline AllenG

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« Reply #7 on: 17/08/2008 16:08:13 »
Given what we have for a president, I'd say not only are we taxed without representation, for the last seven years we have been ruled without representation.

 

Offline RD

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« Reply #8 on: 18/08/2008 10:14:36 »
I'm not sure but I think that HMRC would treat the barter as payment and would not only charge the bar VAT but also charge you income tax on the value of the goods.

Income tax is payable on profit, not the gross value of the trade.
So if it were a non-profit trade no income tax would be payable, but VAT would be payable,
 (except for goods & services which are "zero rated" for VAT, or exempt form VAT).
« Last Edit: 18/08/2008 10:30:11 by RD »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #9 on: 18/08/2008 20:13:43 »
I suspect they would say that the cost of production is nil so they would treat the whole value as profit and then wait for you to prove them wrong.
 

Offline AllenG

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« Reply #10 on: 18/08/2008 23:56:24 »
I'm not sure but I think that HMRC would treat the barter as payment and would not only charge the bar VAT but also charge you income tax on the value of the goods.

Income tax is payable on profit, not the gross value of the trade.
So if it were a non-profit trade no income tax would be payable, but VAT would be payable,
 (except for goods & services which are "zero rated" for VAT, or exempt form VAT).

Is cooking my food considered a service?
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #11 on: 19/08/2008 17:48:50 »
The VAT rules on food vary according to who is buying it...

Quote
Zero-rated...Food for humans including meat, ready meals and cakes - but not food supplied for catering or hot take-aways
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/rates-goods.htm#3

So a bag of potatoes bought for domestic consumption is zero rated.
The same bag of potatoes supplied to a restaurant is rated at 17.5%.
« Last Edit: 19/08/2008 17:50:58 by RD »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #12 on: 19/08/2008 18:49:58 »
Do you remember the fuss about Jaffa Cakes? In the UK you pay VAT on chocolate biscuits, but not chocolate cakes (chocolate biscuits are regarded as a luxury item!).

From http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A528040

For example the infamous UK Jaffa Cake case. Biscuits and cakes are considered a necessity by UK law and are zero rated. Chocolate covered biscuits however are a luxury and subject to VAT at 17.5%. McVities and HM Customs & Excise3 argued over whether the Jaffa Cake was a cake (no VAT) or a chocolate biscuit (lots of VAT). The argument had to be taken to a Tribunal (kind of like a court) to be resolved. In the end McVities baked a 12" Jaffa Cake which convinced the Tribunal Chairman of the general cakeiness of the Jaffa Cake.
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #13 on: 19/08/2008 19:20:27 »
According to Stephen Fry on Qi, cakes and biscuits can be differentiated by "stale cakes go hard, stale biscuits go soft".

(Jaffa Cakes do not have the opportunity to become stale in my presence :) )
« Last Edit: 19/08/2008 19:38:03 by RD »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #14 on: 19/08/2008 20:28:38 »

(Jaffa Cakes do not have the opportunity to become stale in my presence :) )

Same here
 

Offline JimBob

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« Reply #15 on: 20/08/2008 00:48:34 »
They would not have a chance to go stale with me either - if I could get my hands on them. Unfortunately, there is no place to purchase these in Austin. In Houston, where I used to live, there was a place called British Market that would receive shipments direct from the factory of all sorts of items - including Jaffa cakes.
 

Offline RD

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« Reply #16 on: 20/08/2008 10:13:32 »
British groceries are available by mail-order in the USA...

  :)

« Last Edit: 20/08/2008 10:20:03 by RD »
 

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« Reply #16 on: 20/08/2008 10:13:32 »

 

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