# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Gravity Problem Solved  (Read 48096 times)

#### common_sense_seeker

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 213
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #150 on: 15/10/2008 12:32:31 »
I think that CSS has a bet on with a friend to see how long (s)he can keep his/her topics bumped-up in the forum listings.  There's certainly no scientific merit in his/her postings and (s)he is not responding to questions posed, in an effort to resolve anything, by other forum members.  Personally I'd like to see this thread closed - it has achieved nothing and is just a waste of life.

This is a serious proposition. You haven't been able to come up with any rational argument against the theory. I have even thought of a prediction and proof which would validate my arguments:

The current standard theory of the ocean tides would predict that the whole planet bulges evenly due to the gravity gradients of the Sun and the Moon. The Core-Centered Theory of Gravity (CCTG) predicts that there is an additional central bulge on top of the global bulge due to the extra pressure caused by the exotic inner core. Modern satelite technology should be able to determine the shape of the bulges at Spring Tide due to the Sun and Moon. I am convinced that an additional central bulge would be detected. I am currently looknig for any existing data for the shape of the Earth Tide bulges.

#### common_sense_seeker

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 213
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #151 on: 15/10/2008 14:52:55 »
Sophie and BC, why don't you two give me your explanation of the Earth's ocean tides? I've just realised that Sophie the physics teacher still believes that "the Moon pulls the oceans to create the tides", just as he explains to his school children! What a joke.

#### Evie

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 200
• "Back off man...I'm a Scientist."
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #152 on: 15/10/2008 17:28:13 »
Well, for good or ill, some new data will hopefully be available in the very near future. The European Space Agency is launching a probe to measure the earth's gravitational field very precisely. It is called the Gravity field and steady-state Ocean Circulation Explorer (GOCE), and should be launched this month (after several delays, actually). Perhaps this could help decide the matter or clear up some questions about the established tide model (which doesn't seem to have any garish gaps in it, as far as my limited knowledge can tell).

Here's a couple links for those who want to learn more:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080910103709.htm
http://www.esa.int/esaLP/LPgoce.html
« Last Edit: 15/10/2008 17:30:09 by Evie »

#### Bored chemist

• Neilep Level Member
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##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #153 on: 15/10/2008 19:43:23 »
Sophie and BC, why don't you two give me your explanation of the Earth's ocean tides? I've just realised that Sophie the physics teacher still believes that "the Moon pulls the oceans to create the tides", just as he explains to his school children! What a joke.
CSS, your memory fails you.
The conventional (ie supported by evidence) view was explained in essence here
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=16745.msg193467#msg193467
There's more here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tides
You didn't seem to understand it then either.
« Last Edit: 15/10/2008 19:45:15 by Bored chemist »

#### common_sense_seeker

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 213
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #154 on: 16/10/2008 10:23:33 »
Well, for good or ill, some new data will hopefully be available in the very near future. The European Space Agency is launching a probe to measure the earth's gravitational field very precisely. It is called the Gravity field and steady-state Ocean Circulation Explorer (GOCE), and should be launched this month (after several delays, actually). Perhaps this could help decide the matter or clear up some questions about the established tide model (which doesn't seem to have any garish gaps in it, as far as my limited knowledge can tell).

Here's a couple links for those who want to learn more:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080910103709.htm
http://www.esa.int/esaLP/LPgoce.html

Thanks for that. Yes, I was aware of the GOCE satellite mission. Hopefully the question of gravity anomalies will become a hot topic of debate. I'm convinced that the results will correlate with my ideas. But then I would of course.

#### common_sense_seeker

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 213
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #155 on: 16/10/2008 10:30:15 »
Sophie and BC, why don't you two give me your explanation of the Earth's ocean tides? I've just realised that Sophie the physics teacher still believes that "the Moon pulls the oceans to create the tides", just as he explains to his school children! What a joke.
CSS, your memory fails you.
The conventional (ie supported by evidence) view was explained in essence here
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=16745.msg193467#msg193467
There's more here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tides
You didn't seem to understand it then either.

The first link you give is about the Earth 'giving' angular momentum to the Moon via Tidal Braking. A different subject. I'm not convinced by it, especially since there isn't an obvious mechanism in my mind.

I admit that I didn't know about the gravity gradient explanation of the tides at the beginning. That's what science is all about. Learning a new perspective on how to understand our world etc.

BC, do you accept that I have a good theory which would be proved correct if it is found that the shape of the tidal bulge has an additional central bulge? If not (which I assume is the case), why can't you give a sensible response with reasoning against it?
« Last Edit: 16/10/2008 10:33:06 by common_sense_seeker »

#### Bored chemist

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##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #156 on: 16/10/2008 20:03:27 »

I admit that I didn't know about the gravity gradient explanation of the tides at the beginning. That's what science is all about. Learning a new perspective on how to understand our world etc.

BC, do you accept that I have a good theory which would be proved correct if it is found that the shape of the tidal bulge has an additional central bulge? If not (which I assume is the case), why can't you give a sensible response with reasoning against it?
No I wouldn't because your "theory" fails to agree with experimental observation on other matters such as the places where the highest tides are the fact that the moon spins and so on.
Most preposterous of all is the idea that gravity only affects the earth but ignores the water.

If you are wrong in fact, I don't have to give a reason.
If, for example, you told me that according to your theory my shoes must be brown, but in fact they are black then your theory is wrong. I don't have to give any explanation of why your theory is wrong and I don't have to offer a better theory.
A single fact can kill a theory and your "theory" is dead.

#### LeeE

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 3382
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #157 on: 16/10/2008 23:59:16 »
Excuse me for not checking on your postings to this thread regularly but:

Quote
This is a serious proposition. You haven't been able to come up with any rational argument against the theory

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
choke, splutter,
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Just in case you haven't got it - that's ridicule.

If you are as smart as you seem to believe you are, and all indications to date are to the contrary, you'll have to do much better than you have done so far.

You have, however, managed to get some quite intelligent people to waste a not insignificant amount of their time on you, which I suppose is an achievement of sorts, although not one I would personally be proud of.

#### Bored chemist

• Neilep Level Member
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##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #158 on: 17/10/2008 06:58:31 »
Re
"You have, however, managed to get some quite intelligent people to waste a not insignificant amount of their time on you, which I suppose is an achievement of sorts, although not one I would personally be proud of."
It's a bit like clearing the neighbour's cat's crap off the lawn. It takes time. It's not particulalry enjoyable, but if you don't do it the place fills up with crap.
His achievement can be compared to a that of dumb animal with an upset stomach.

#### common_sense_seeker

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 213
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #159 on: 17/10/2008 10:21:31 »

I admit that I didn't know about the gravity gradient explanation of the tides at the beginning. That's what science is all about. Learning a new perspective on how to understand our world etc.

BC, do you accept that I have a good theory which would be proved correct if it is found that the shape of the tidal bulge has an additional central bulge? If not (which I assume is the case), why can't you give a sensible response with reasoning against it?
No I wouldn't because your "theory" fails to agree with experimental observation on other matters such as the places where the highest tides are the fact that the moon spins and so on.
Most preposterous of all is the idea that gravity only affects the earth but ignores the water.

If you are wrong in fact, I don't have to give a reason.
If, for example, you told me that according to your theory my shoes must be brown, but in fact they are black then your theory is wrong. I don't have to give any explanation of why your theory is wrong and I don't have to offer a better theory.
A single fact can kill a theory and your "theory" is dead.

BC said: "Most preposterous of all is the idea that gravity only affects the earth but ignores the water."

This shows that you don't have an understanding of the tides. You don't understand the explanation of gravity gradients. You haven't read the easy-to-read Wikipedia entries on the subject. I doubt whether you are involved in science at a professional level at all. If you do work at the place which you previously alluded to, then that is simply a reflection of how out-of-date that institution really is. Shame on you.

#### BenV

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 1503
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #160 on: 17/10/2008 10:34:36 »
Okay everyone, is the rest this thread just going to consist of flaming one another?  I think it may have run it's course, so will be locking it soon unless anyone has anything new to add.  I'll give it till this weekend.

#### common_sense_seeker

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 213
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #161 on: 17/10/2008 10:42:27 »
Early on in the thread I was quite reactionary to the negative comments, but now I have realised that the two main protagonists don't understand the basic explanation of the tides even when given the Wikipedia link. That's the problem. I've already admitted that I was ignorant of the full scientific explanation at the beginning of all this. Perhaps they should do the same?
« Last Edit: 17/10/2008 11:00:52 by common_sense_seeker »

#### BenV

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 1503
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #162 on: 17/10/2008 11:15:53 »
Would this be the wikipedia entry you described as
Quote
completely wishy-washy and could have been written by anyone
?

Edit - and does your theory still predict a non-spinning moon?  If so, it will need some adapting...

Edit again - People asked you for a link to the forum where you are "using TeX in another forum where people are just a notch higher in their ability than you guys."  Please supply the link or they, and I, will be forced to think that was just a lie, and that you are wasting people's time.
« Last Edit: 17/10/2008 11:23:34 by BenV »

#### BenV

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 1503
##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #163 on: 18/10/2008 17:34:01 »
Okay then.  No-one has anything constructive to add, and CSS has not posted the requested link to those terribly bright people discussing his idea in TeX on another forum, so we are forced to conclude that it's not really there.  Shame.

Thread locked.

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Gravity Problem Solved
« Reply #163 on: 18/10/2008 17:34:01 »

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