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Author Topic: Does physics allow for a proton star  (Read 11731 times)

Offline Alan McDougall

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« on: 02/09/2008 17:25:04 »
I know that there are neutron stars out in the universe. If neutrons can be compacted  by gravity into a dense star, why not protons doing the same creating and a proton star?

I also cant see how a neutron bomb could work, being that neutrons are negative particles

Help

Alan


 

Offline Bored chemist

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #1 on: 02/09/2008 18:24:58 »
"If neutrons can be compacted  by gravity into a dense star, why not protons doing the same creating and a proton star?"
The positive charge on the protons makes them repel each other. Of course most of the mass of the sun is protons, but there are an equal number of electrons in there too so the overall charge cancels out.

"I also cant see how a neutron bomb could work, "
Neutron bombs work by generating a lot of neutrons which are extremely bad for people (because we are largely made of water, which is mainly hydrogen which is easily knocked about by neutrons).

"being that neutrons are negative particles"
Neutrons are neutral- that's where they get the name.


 

Offline Alan McDougall

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #2 on: 03/09/2008 10:21:20 »
BC

I know neutrons are neutral and heck man!! "my understanding of physics and astronomy is not that basic".

I have been an active amateur astronomer most of my adult life

And I also am aware that protons are positive but my position is, positive or not, could an almost an infinite source of gravity such as that in a black hole not do the same for protons as that is done to neutrons in a neutron star? Formed from a collapsed Supernova

Alan

Alan
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #3 on: 03/09/2008 19:21:55 »
A neutron star is essentially electrically neutral and it forms from a star that is neutral.
A proton star would have a huge charge on it; what could it form from?
It's posible that you could drop isolated protons into a black hole and end up with a hole with a charge, but the question would very rapidly become "how do I stop the electrons falling into the same hole?"
The electrostatic force is IIRC about 10^34 times larger than the gravitational one.
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #4 on: 03/09/2008 22:50:35 »
BC

Well during surfing the web I found this idea of a proton star. There was even a suggestion of an electron star, but I felt this was a little to far off to post maybe even a little silly at that.

But some silly speculations of the past are now useful facts are they not
 

lyner

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #5 on: 04/09/2008 09:10:20 »
Quote
But some silly speculations of the past are now useful facts are they not
 
But nearly ALL of them ARE still silly speculations.
Random  "Surfing the net" is really not a fruitful way to enhance your deeper understanding of Science. Despite what you romantics think, a good textbook on the table beside the computer can save you a lot of fruitless speculation.
If you were to wear your financial heart on your sleeve in the same way that you wear your scientific heart, you could guarantee yourself poverty!
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #6 on: 04/09/2008 13:45:24 »
I did not randomly surf the net daddy as you suggested I searched o see if my silly idea was also considered by other uninformed children like me. Man!! sophie give me a little credit Please

Alan
 

lyner

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #7 on: 04/09/2008 14:22:13 »
I repeat my suggestion about a Physics Textbook; at least it's an 'informed' place to start from. I, personally, would never be without one.
Look up about Nuclear Structure and  Coulomb forces (electrostatic) and conclude why the biggest collection of protons you can find together (an atomic nucleus) is not greater than 120 -and even that small number require some Neutrons to help them stay together.
If you are really interested in Science, you will find the patterns which real Science has found - rather than some of  the whacky proposed exceptions that you can find on the Internet - are more interesting and satisfying.

If you are impressed by the successes of modern technology then you have to admit that they are all based on the conventional stuff - so it's not all boring and limited.

PS Another good thing about a book is that it doesn't get tetchy like I do!
« Last Edit: 04/09/2008 14:23:56 by sophiecentaur »
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #8 on: 04/09/2008 14:41:37 »
Sophie

I am a Mechanical  Engineer familiar with physics, maths, etc, But I admit I am in much need to catch up. That is the main reason for joining the forum. I appreciate your advice

Alan
 

lyner

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #9 on: 04/09/2008 16:01:36 »
If you want a book which will give you almost all the answers you could ever want, read "The Human Touch" by Michael Frayne. He is a very well informed guy and writes well.
It deals with Physics, Anthropology, Philosophy and a lot more. (It's not a book for just one sitting, though).
 

Offline Alan McDougall

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #10 on: 05/09/2008 09:43:30 »
Sophie,

I will ask one of my daughters to get it for me as a Christmass present

The Large Hadron particle collider in Switzerland is to be switched on Wednesday with much speculation in the media (eg create a black hole that will swallow the earth nonsense.

Why I state this here is Hadron is just another word for Proton and these protons are going to be accelerated to as near as possible to the speed of light in oppisite directions

The question is if these particles are accelerate within a tad of light speed in opposite direction, would the then collide at greater than the speed of light

Maybe this question could be used in a new thread.

I will do this if you dont mind

Regards

Alan
 

lyner

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #11 on: 05/09/2008 12:02:18 »

not a greater speed (the concept has no real  meaning in the context of Physics because SR says that the relative speed of one to the other just can't be >c!)
But they will have oodles of ENERGY (which is nice).
 

Offline Mr.Proper

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #12 on: 28/03/2011 10:36:04 »
I speculate that the process that creates neutron stars, does so, by merging proton and electrons together, and form neutrons. Just like a neutron can emit a beta particle, and 'become' a proton, the process can be reversed.

Having the proton star not 'torn apart' by positive forces, would not be a reasonable argument for it's impossibility. All nuclei are positively charged, but not all of them fission. So as long as it had some neutrons, it would not be impossible (but then again, it's not a proton star in a way similar to a neutron star, it would rather be a 'macro atom').

I don't consider them impossible, but I don't think they exist, due to the practical reason I mentioned.
 

Offline Pikaia

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #13 on: 28/03/2011 10:56:54 »
The repulsive electric charge of a proton star would overcome gravity, and the nuclear forces are very short-range, so it would be impossible for the star to stay together.

There is also the problem of removing the electrons in the first place!
 

Offline JMLCarter

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #14 on: 28/03/2011 20:02:39 »
your particle accelerator protons might be going in opposite directions relative to the ground at near c, but from the viewpoint of one the other will only be travelling only a little nearer c. Speed measurement is relative, and limited to c according to the theory of relativity. One cannot just add the speeds as works quite well for v << c.

It takes some studying to get to terms with relativity.
 

Offline GrapperJ

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Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #15 on: 08/04/2011 18:47:53 »
If neutrons can be compacted by gravity into a dense star, why not protons doing the same creating and a proton star?

Protons repel each other. The gravity/force required to keep that amount of protons bound together to form a star would essentially turn it into a black hole instantly.

Though, some postulate that there is a star more dense than a neutron star, yet not dense enough to become a singularity -- a quark star. Also, some string theorists posit that a black hole isn't really a singularity. Rather, it's a star that is so dense, the quarks break down into its components. Strings. Hence the aptly named 'Fuzz Balls'.
 

Offline upkaroneearth

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Re: Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #16 on: 18/05/2014 12:58:02 »
ALL STARS are proton stars. all stars are both electron and proton stars.
 

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Re: Does physics allow for a proton star
« Reply #16 on: 18/05/2014 12:58:02 »

 

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