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Author Topic: Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements  (Read 8723 times)

Offline cuso4

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Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements
« on: 10/05/2003 21:33:46 »
I saw an article about liquid breathing on a magazine. It said that human cannot breath in water because water doesn't contain enough oxygen for efficient gas exchange in alveoli and therefore will suffocate.

Researchers made a substance, anyone know the name and properties? I didn't not it down when I was reading it. They suspended a mouse in this liquid and it breaths ok except the instant shock when immersed.

This liquid is used in some medical treatment for premature babies whose lungs haven't yet developed properly. Errr... am I right?

Angel


 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements
« Reply #1 on: 10/05/2003 23:48:52 »
Interesting subject, Angel.  I also heard that when a baby is born you should wait until the umbilical cord stops pulsing before cutting it.  The theory was that more oxygen is provided through the blood that way, allowing a little exta time for the infant's lungs to take over.

 

Offline Quantumcat

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Re: Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements
« Reply #2 on: 11/05/2003 03:27:54 »
I thought the air sac thingies would be too delicate to be able to take water coming into them? Oh well, guess I'm wrong :p
 

Offline NakedScientist

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Re: Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements
« Reply #3 on: 11/05/2003 12:25:51 »
These breathable liquids for liquid ventilation do exist. They have been under development since the 1960s, and can also be used as a blood substitute (links below).

Crucially they are are NOT water based and instead exploit fluorocarbon mixes which can absorb high concentrations of oxygen. Having said that, if you breathe oxygen at about 3 times normal pressure you can dissolve enough in normal plasma to supply the needs of the body without having to have any haemoglobin ! (My memory might be slightly rusty on this one, so don't try it at home !).

But, to address quantum's point, the surfaces of alveoli (the lung air-sacs) are coated with a sufactant comprising 80% phospholipids, 10% proteins, and 10% neutral lipids. The predominate phospholipids are phosphatidylcholine (PC) and phosphatidylglycerol.

The purpose of lung surfactant is to abolish hydrophilic attraction (hydrogen bonding) on the alveolar surface. This greatly increases the collapsing pressure - in other words the alveoli can remain patent at a much lower pressure, and much less effort is required to inflate them. One of the problems faced by premature babies is poor lung function because they don't produce any surfactant which is why they struggle to breathe. The liquid ventilation technology is one approach being developed to tackle this problem because it incorporates a surfactant and doesn't hydrogen bond like water.

Liquid Ventilation Link : http://www.sybd.com/LV.html

Blood substitute : http://www.allp.com/Oxygent/ox_fact.htm
 

Offline nilmot

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Re: Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements
« Reply #4 on: 11/05/2003 14:33:23 »
I heard this from my science teacher, she said that when babies are born. The doctors pat them on the back so they get the water out of their lungs to let them breath before cutting the umbilical cord.

Does this fit in with the thoery and is this true?

Tom
 

Offline Quantumcat

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Re: Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements
« Reply #5 on: 11/05/2003 15:15:55 »
Patting them on the back also makes them cry which forces them to breathe :p
 

Offline chris

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Re: Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements
« Reply #6 on: 11/05/2003 16:10:45 »
I rather suspect that the patting on the back contributes little to expelling water from the lungs. Being squeezed through a hole that usually measures a few cm across almost certainly takes care of that !

For this reason I do wonder about the future with all these caesarian sections that are going on amongst the "too posh to push" brigade.

Few women realise the consequences of a caesarian which they view as 'routine'. It is major abdominal surgery with risks of infection, haemorrhage, uterine rupture in future pregnancies, a long recovery time (not allowed to drive for 6 weeks afterwards) and long term consequences including the prospect of adhesions and potentially condemning yourself to another caesarian for any future children because the uterus is weakened. For many of these people the motivation is purely selfish - convenient childbirth at an appointed time so they don't have to miss that crucial meeting at the office !

Here we are living in a world obsessed with sterility to the extent that it may be driving us to develop allergies at record rates (prevalence of asthma up tenfold to less than 1 person in 10 compared with 1 person in 20 ten years ago) and people are still looking for ways to mess themselves up ! Madness.

Chris
 

Offline cuso4

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Re: Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements
« Reply #7 on: 11/05/2003 17:02:48 »
quote:
Originally posted by NakedScientist

These breathable liquids for liquid ventilation do exist. They have been under development since the 1960s, and can also be used as a blood substitute (links below).

Crucially they are are NOT water based and instead exploit fluorocarbon mixes which can absorb high concentrations of oxygen. Having said that, if you breathe oxygen at about 3 times normal pressure you can dissolve enough in normal plasma to supply the needs of the body without having to have any haemoglobin ! (My memory might be slightly rusty on this one, so don't try it at home !).

But, to address quantum's point, the surfaces of alveoli (the lung air-sacs) are coated with a sufactant comprising 80% phospholipids, 10% proteins, and 10% neutral lipids. The predominate phospholipids are phosphatidylcholine (PC) and phosphatidylglycerol.

The purpose of lung surfactant is to abolish hydrophilic attraction (hydrogen bonding) on the alveolar surface. This greatly increases the collapsing pressure - in other words the alveoli can remain patent at a much lower pressure, and much less effort is required to inflate them. One of the problems faced by premature babies is poor lung function because they don't produce any surfactant which is why they struggle to breathe. The liquid ventilation technology is one approach being developed to tackle this problem because it incorporates a surfactant and doesn't hydrogen bond like water.

Liquid Ventilation Link : http://www.sybd.com/LV.html

Blood substitute : http://www.allp.com/Oxygent/ox_fact.htm



Good articles. A lot of info on liquid ventilation and fluorocarbons.

Angel
 

Offline Exodus

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Re: Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements
« Reply #8 on: 11/05/2003 21:49:07 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

I rather suspect that the patting on the back contributes little to expelling water from the lungs. Being squeezed through a hole that usually measures a few cm across almost certainly takes care of that !

For this reason I do wonder about the future with all these caesarian sections that are going on amongst the "too posh to push" brigade.

Few women realise the consequences of a caesarian which they view as 'routine'. It is major abdominal surgery with risks of infection, haemorrhage, uterine rupture in future pregnancies, a long recovery time (not allowed to drive for 6 weeks afterwards) and long term consequences including the prospect of adhesions and potentially condemning yourself to another caesarian for any future children because the uterus is weakened. For many of these people the motivation is purely selfish - convenient childbirth at an appointed time so they don't have to miss that crucial meeting at the office !

Here we are living in a world obsessed with sterility to the extent that it may be driving us to develop allergies at record rates (prevalence of asthma up tenfold to less than 1 person in 10 compared with 1 person in 20 ten years ago) and people are still looking for ways to mess themselves up ! Madness.

Chris



Just push the little blighter out for goodness sake... its been done since the beginning of time!!! They should thank their lucky stars they aint an elephant! [xx(]

Essentia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem...
 

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Re: Breathable Liquids & Blood Replacements
« Reply #8 on: 11/05/2003 21:49:07 »

 

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