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Author Topic: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?  (Read 40859 times)

Offline _Stefan_

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #100 on: 10/02/2009 10:55:00 »
Hahaha.

You have to be joking.

Terrorism is a form of hostility. Humans have always been hostle to enemies.

Those things can hardly be called immoral, unless you have a 1st century mindset.

Evidence for drug abuse dates back to the Stone Ages.

Lack of regard for others? Come on.

As for your ideas of "proof", you won't get anywhere with them.
 

Offline BenV

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #101 on: 10/02/2009 11:20:15 »
I hope are not too sidetracked from what we started talking about. i.e the origin of matter.

Um... have you got the wrong thread?  We weren't discussing the origin of matter at all.
 

Offline demadone

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #102 on: 10/02/2009 12:25:27 »
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As to the rest: viruses have always plagued humans; humans have always performed hostile acts towards others, and terrorists are actually not a major cause of death; Climate change is the only phenomenon which can even remotely fit your criteria, but it hardly promotes your cause, because the earth has experienced multiple dramatic climate fluctuations before.

You're arguing any facts and trying to explain them before you really think about them. You sound like you're having a chat with Jim Jones or David Koresh. I'm just an ordinary guy and these facts I'm pulling out are just to answer some of the arguments guys have brought forward.
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #103 on: 10/02/2009 12:37:22 »
You mean you're pulling those facts out of thin air.
 

Offline demadone

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #104 on: 10/02/2009 13:37:35 »
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You mean you're pulling those facts out of thin air.

Basically we all agree they are 'facts'. Some would argue even their own existence just to cling to their belief there is no God, that everything came from nothing.
« Last Edit: 10/02/2009 13:49:46 by demadone »
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #105 on: 10/02/2009 13:49:01 »
Your facts are either wrong, or not used in the correct context / misused to support dubious arguments.

Not all facts are true.
 

Offline demadone

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #106 on: 10/02/2009 13:57:21 »
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Not all facts are true.

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FACT: a thing that is indisputably the case

Concise oxford dictionary

Hope you won't stand by your phrase because it is not true.

I just wanted you to pick out what I may be misusing as a fact or whatever fact may be misinterpreting as evidence of worsening world events. Don't get depressed with my tone. That is not at all my intention.
« Last Edit: 10/02/2009 14:31:08 by demadone »
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #107 on: 10/02/2009 16:02:19 »
By that I meant that not everything that is called a fact, is actually true. Some things can be asserted despite the state of the evidence.

I am trying to explain to you that your belief that things are worse now than they were 2000 years ago is demonstrably false in the developed world. Despite certain phenomena that we currently suffer from, our overall conditions are by far better than they used to be even 100 years ago. Thanks to our living conditions and modern medicine, we are living on average longer and healthier than ever before.

You are biased by the fact that you live in the present and so the disasters the world currently experiences are much more significant to you than those our ancestors experienced. Yet none of the types of disasters you describe are unique to the present, and people 2000 years ago suffered more from them. In this light, the "facts" you have presented do not support your argument.
 

Offline demadone

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #108 on: 11/02/2009 10:39:18 »
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Yet none of the types of disasters you describe are unique to the present, and people 2000 years ago suffered more from them

I'm think about the world wars and AIDS and shaking my head at your statement. I'm not suffering any of these but I know we have had major disasters of our own and they are much worse than what could be there before. The bible doesn't say they will happen at every square meter of the earth but they would be getting worse. Interestingly, it does too mention that people would refuse to take note.

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 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be (days of the end). For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be.
« Last Edit: 11/02/2009 10:41:16 by demadone »
 

lyner

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #109 on: 11/02/2009 10:51:10 »

Increase in the following is undeniable :
Terrorism
[The Bible is full of it and life on the Northwest Frontier was always that way)


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Immorality (including homosexuality, infidelity, pornography industry etc)
(Try Ancient Rome)


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Drug abuse
(Laudnum was pretty popular in Victorian times. Hashish has been around for a long time and regularly used. And when was drinking Alcohol first invented?  I think the Babylonians were quite keen on it.)

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Lark of regard for others
(On what evidence? Who cared for slaves - ever? Or foreigners, like Samaritans, for instance? )


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yet again I'm sure you can finish off the list yourself.
(It's your list and, so far it is zero length)



« Last Edit: 11/02/2009 12:35:53 by sophiecentaur »
 

lyner

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Re: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #110 on: 11/02/2009 10:54:26 »
But was your list devised in order to provide some statistical proof of the existence of a God?
To me, it looks more like a subjective justification. Fair enough, but don't expect it to convince me.
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #111 on: 11/02/2009 15:28:36 »
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(Laudnum was pretty popular in Victorian times. Hashish has been around for a long time and regularly used. And when was drinking Alcohol first invented?  I think the Babylonians were quite keen on it.)

Things have been bad in the past too indeed. Some were even destroyed for it like in the case of the global deluge. But the warning is that whenever these things will reach great extents, a lot worse than before in magnitude, then the end will come. I mean even scientists can tell that global warming is leaving life on earth on the balance.
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #112 on: 11/02/2009 15:47:39 »
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Increase in the following is undeniable :
Terrorism
(The Bible is full of it and life on the Northwest Frontier was always that way)

So who were the suicide bombers and did they manage to take on average 25 lives a day?

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is similar to what you are referring to and I am not giving that as example.

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(Laudnum was pretty popular in Victorian times. Hashish has been around for a long time and regularly used. And when was drinking Alcohol first invented?  I think the Babylonians were quite keen on it.)

They used to have it yes. Babylon was destroyed by God for it.
Hashish. You may have heard of ecstasy or cocaine which are quite worse (not that hashish is OK).

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(Try Ancient Rome)
I decided to remove the comment... It is directed at some other topic of contention.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2009 08:08:31 by demadone »
 

Offline BenV

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #113 on: 11/02/2009 16:11:11 »
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(Try Ancient Rome)
Try Netherlands with there homosexual population. I mean you must know that this is a really free society we are living in. Even churches now condone.
Here you're just exposing your bias.  There's nowt wrong with homosexuality whatsoever.  If two people are in love, I couldn't care less what gender they are.

I think most people on this site are fairly humanist about this sort of thing, what gives you the right to say that the way someone chooses to live their life is wrong?
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #114 on: 12/02/2009 08:15:18 »
I removed my comment about homosexual activity in recent times. Then if you're more comfortable about it, then I will redirect my attention to the pornography industry and how much access people have to such. They may have been quite loose in Rome but now the stuff is all over. Even just in my childhood, pornography was something you just heard about, now even 8 year old kids can quite easily access it.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2009 08:34:55 by demadone »
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #115 on: 12/02/2009 08:47:01 »
In ancient times, 8 year old kids were approaching or had even reached marital age.

Your position is not defendable. Few if any of the ills you describe are unique to modern society.
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #116 on: 12/02/2009 14:43:43 »
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Your position is not defendable. Few if any of the ills you describe are unique to modern society.
They are not unique but they are on the increase. Some may be explained to population increase, global warming and others to moral degradation (and I didn't come up with the phrase).
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #117 on: 12/02/2009 14:49:36 »
a large number of persons do not believe that God exists. And since many of these persons are scientists, some individuals jump to the conclusion that to believe in the existence of God the Creator is unscientific. Yet others think to be a real scientists (of astronomical proportions) you have to be Atheist. That's very unfortunate.
 

Offline LeeE

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #118 on: 12/02/2009 16:41:22 »
You really shouldn't go back and edit old posts to change their content.  Quickly correcting a typo or re-phrasing the same thing to clarify the meaning is ok, but removing things you've already said some time ago can turn the thread in to meaningless gibberish as people may have already replied to stuff you've removed in the light of their comments.

If you subsequently realise that you were wrong about something, then just say so in the thread, so that the thread still makes sense.  Removing stuff from your old posts really looks like you're trying to hide a mistake and are re-writing history to fit with what you're currently saying or claiming.
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #119 on: 13/02/2009 03:09:33 »
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Your position is not defendable. Few if any of the ills you describe are unique to modern society.
They are not unique but they are on the increase. Some may be explained to population increase, global warming and others to moral degradation (and I didn't come up with the phrase).
This is nonsense. You have not demonstrated this to be true. You can hardly say that the net amount of ills experienced by each person per unit of time has increased since thousands of years ago. Give it up already.

a large number of persons do not believe that God exists. And since many of these persons are scientists, some individuals jump to the conclusion that to believe in the existence of God the Creator is unscientific. Yet others think to be a real scientists (of astronomical proportions) you have to be Atheist. That's very unfortunate.
You are making an appeal to authority. God-belief is not unscientific because some atheists are scientists, but because a god can not be investigated scientifically - there's just no evidence, and there are so many contradictions between the god concept and what is already understood about the physics of the universe. It's the same reason that belief in faeries and invisible pink unicorns is unscientific.
« Last Edit: 13/02/2009 03:11:15 by _Stefan_ »
 

Offline demografx

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #120 on: 15/02/2009 22:31:51 »
what do you get if you cross and atheist and a Jehovah's witness?
Someone who knocks on your door for no reason.

Very good, Paul.

Have you heard about the insomniac who is agnostic and dyslexic?

Stays up all night wondering whether there really is a dog.
 

Offline Astronomer_FB

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #121 on: 15/02/2009 23:49:14 »
You guys are forgetting the Qu'ran Muslims have so much proof of the book being right and prooving God or Allah.  It has signs of the day of judgment and it has not been wrong yet it told of the mongols attacking the Islamic empire and then making peace with them.  Then it says that the sun will rise on the west.  Scientist are now seeing that the earth is starting to slowly slow down and eventually it will stop and go the other way.  Mathematically I don't think you can prove God is real with numbers. 

By the way for the christians I was wondering I do not believe you guys have the original bible so how do you refer back to the original and make sure nothing is being messed with because in history there have been corrupt christian leader that could have tampered the bible and noone has an original to say "wait someone messed with the bible.".  Why are there so many kinds of christians , why when I ask someone what religon they are they say something besides christianity?
 

Offline Astronomer_FB

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #122 on: 15/02/2009 23:54:44 »
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It could just as easily be interpreted as me getting my washing back from the laundry and finding that I haven't lost a sock.

It says in clear terms that matter resulted from energy. No 2 ways about it.

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The bible doesn't talk about science, it sticks to allusion, which is so open to interpretation as to make it meaningless in any absolute sense.  Incidentally, both the ancient Greeks and Asian Indians thought that the Earth was spherical.
You must have heard interpretations from guys who don't really know the bible. About Indians, it is common knowledge that they believed in an elephant with a turtle on it's back on whose back was the earth. Even just 500 years ago people were afraid of falling over the edge. And Philosophy was quite hot then.

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The difference between religion and science is that religion is all about belief, and furthermore, it requires a lack of proof; when you have proof you have knowledge and belief becomes redundant.  Science, on the other hand is all about knowledge, and it seeks proof.  Be careful not to confuse knowledge and belief; they are mutually exclusive.
Not true

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The lack of evidence for one.
You exist as proof. Singularity if it existed must have come from somewhere. Isaiah explains where.
Well the bible does not really have proof of its self being right or holy even though I do believe some of it is right but the Qu'ran does have eye witnesses of its holiness and the miracles of its time. They are called Hadiths look them up they are quotes from the time of prophet Mohamed(pbuh).
and so noone gets it mixed up Muslims do believe in Jesus  (pbuh).
 

lyner

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #123 on: 16/02/2009 12:33:23 »
I have seen many Magic Tricks and I saw what I saw. The trick worked for me. That doesn't mean that there really was levitation and teleportation. Witnesses (especially in the dim and distant past) are actually worth zilch as a 'proof' of anything.
Old Moore's Almamanac is full of 'predictions', as are Astrologers' statements. If you are inventive enough, then you can link them to subsequent events but how often do they predict Derby winners of the state of the Stock Exchange? Are they all driving round in posher cars since the Credit Crunch arrived? Why didn't they know about it?
To prove something as important as the existence of a God it  would be necessary to do those same 'miracles' on demand and under laboratory conditions.
Why do you guys not just accept that you have faith and that that is enough for you?
I guess, if you are a Muslim, you would claim that the Koran is the right version and the others got it wrong. That's understandable. But show me a passage in that document which accurately predicts a modern event with complete lack of ambiguity.
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #124 on: 16/02/2009 15:22:48 »
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there are so many contradictions between the god concept and what is already understood about the physics of the universe.
It would be great to hear some examples Stef.

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You have not demonstrated this to be true. You can hardly say that the net amount of ills experienced by each person per unit of time has increased since thousands of years ago. Give it up already.
That's because you live in Australia. If you lived here or most other places in the world your opinion would be very different. You haven't seen 10 year olds begging in streets to feed 3 younger sibling orphans of parents who have died of AIDS. Or 90% unemployment cases as in Zimbabwe. Do you know what their inflation rate is? Most of you are arguing facts just because you are doing fine. It's a pity that guys from less developed countries are not on this discussion forum. You would get a different picture.

So if we were talking average pains per person, it may not be fair to compare with the past but maybe to check the current pains in the light of what the current state of people should be. What comes to mind when you hear words like Nazi, Darfur, Rwanda, Hiroshima? If you can try to picture yourself there or your family members then you may get a picture that these are serious matters. We face the danger of accepting such things as normal...of growing insensitive to the pains of others.
« Last Edit: 16/02/2009 15:25:29 by demadone »
 

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
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