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Author Topic: Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?  (Read 40947 times)

lyner

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #125 on: 16/02/2009 16:32:28 »
demadone
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You haven't seen 10 year olds begging in streets to feed 3 younger sibling orphans of parents who have died of AIDS. Or 90% unemployment cases as in Zimbabwe.

Such situations have existed since the year dot - they were not written about because they were just not remarkable OR, perhaps, because people in 'your' wonderful past ages just didn't care. At least some people care nowadays. Basically your comparisons are meaningless because they are not  fair tests in the Scientific sense. Your observation / measurement systems are not comparable so neither are the results.

I believe that the Christians were pretty vile to Muslims during the Crusades. Would you say they were any better than they are now?
 

Offline Astronomer_FB

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #126 on: 16/02/2009 23:26:07 »
I have seen many Magic Tricks and I saw what I saw. The trick worked for me. That doesn't mean that there really was levitation and teleportation. Witnesses (especially in the dim and distant past) are actually worth zilch as a 'proof' of anything.
Old Moore's Almamanac is full of 'predictions', as are Astrologers' statements. If you are inventive enough, then you can link them to subsequent events but how often do they predict Derby winners of the state of the Stock Exchange? Are they all driving round in posher cars since the Credit Crunch arrived? Why didn't they know about it?
To prove something as important as the existence of a God it  would be necessary to do those same 'miracles' on demand and under laboratory conditions.
Why do you guys not just accept that you have faith and that that is enough for you?
I guess, if you are a Muslim, you would claim that the Koran is the right version and the others got it wrong. That's understandable. But show me a passage in that document which accurately predicts a modern event with complete lack of ambiguity.

OK Muslims do believe in some of the bible but there had been so much corruption God made another and final book . For modern predictions Qu'ran said that there would be a time where premarriagle sex and there would be disease with it which is Aids HIV. Another is time of global crisis in the economy.us  One more off the top of my head is Muslims not following the right path [ The terriost and eveyday muslims not following the teachings of the Qu'ran or the word of the Prophet Mohammad pbuh]
 

Offline BenV

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #127 on: 16/02/2009 23:43:04 »
For modern predictions Qu'ran said that there would be a time where premarriagle sex and there would be disease with it which is Aids HIV.
Which affects a great deal of married, monogamous, faithful people worldwide.

If you can discount the bible, which it seems you can, then why not the Qu'ran?  Do you see any double standard there?
 

Offline Astronomer_FB

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #128 on: 16/02/2009 23:53:23 »
For modern predictions Qu'ran said that there would be a time where premarriagle sex and there would be disease with it which is Aids HIV.
Which affects a great deal of married, monogamous, faithful people worldwide.

If you can discount the bible, which it seems you can, then why not the Qu'ran?  Do you see any double standard there?
To tell you the truth I do not thin, it is wrong.  Now I step back and look back what doesn't make sense and it all does, tell me what you see is wrong in the book I will not be offended.  But almost everyone now is fearful of gettimg AIDS ask anyone who just had unmariagle sex they worry for pregancy and sti this because of the past with prostitutes and many different lovers and leaving them.
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #129 on: 17/02/2009 07:06:11 »
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Such situations have existed since the year dot - they were not written about because they were just not remarkable OR, perhaps, because people in 'your' wonderful past ages just didn't care. At least some people care nowadays.

I believe that the Christians were pretty vile to Muslims during the Crusades. Would you say they were any better than they are now?
That is true. Entire nations and empires have experienced their final days of existence. Only a few generations ago mighty Indian nations roamed the plains of the western United States, living a simple nomadic life. But now they are gone, stamped out of existence by the westward-moving white men.

The “last days” here spoken of in the Bible are obviously an important period in history that would be marked by unusual distress. Yet, the Bible shows that, in spite of the evidence that the “last days” were at hand, people would not believe it. Instead, they would ridicule: 'All things are continuing as they always have been.'

When Mount Vesuvius was sending forth warnings in 79 AD, the majority of people in the city of Pompeii did not heed. While a few left the city at the mountain’s first outburst, many Pompeians—chiefly the wealthy—refused to abandon precious homes and possessions and took shelter, hoping the horror would pass. The decision cost them their lives. They realized that things were not right, yet they did not flee. How foolish! Rather than make a similar mistake, we today should heed the warning of the end’s approach.
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #130 on: 17/02/2009 07:24:00 »
WOW. You can't wait for the world to end. You see decline everywhere when there's really none.
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #131 on: 17/02/2009 15:24:28 »
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Such situations have existed since the year dot - they were not written about because they were just not remarkable OR, perhaps, because people in 'your' wonderful past ages just didn't care. At least some people care nowadays.

I believe that the Christians were pretty vile to Muslims during the Crusades. Would you say they were any better than they are now?
That is true. Entire nations and empires have experienced their final days of existence. Only a few generations ago mighty Indian nations roamed the plains of the western United States, living a simple nomadic life. But now they are gone, stamped out of existence by the westward-moving white men.

The “last days” here spoken of in the Bible are obviously an important period in history that would be marked by unusual distress. Yet, the Bible shows that, in spite of the evidence that the “last days” were at hand, people would not believe it. Instead, they would ridicule: 'All things are continuing as they always have been.'

When Mount Vesuvius was sending forth warnings in 79 AD, the majority of people in the city of Pompeii did not heed. While a few left the city at the mountain’s first outburst, many Pompeians—chiefly the wealthy—refused to abandon precious homes and possessions and took shelter, hoping the horror would pass. The decision cost them their lives. They realized that things were not right, yet they did not flee. How foolish! Rather than make a similar mistake, we today should heed the warning of the end’s approach.
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #132 on: 17/02/2009 15:25:29 »
Stefan you never came back with those examples I requested
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #133 on: 17/02/2009 15:29:09 »
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WOW. You can't wait for the world to end. You see decline everywhere when there's really none.

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the Bible shows that, in spite of the evidence that the “last days” were at hand, people would not believe it. Instead, they would ridicule: 'All things are continuing as they always have been.'

Actually this discussion has been dragging on because of something I mentioned along the thread that we are living in the last days.
Can't wait to take a different turn in this discussion. We are discussing the existence of a creator.
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #134 on: 17/02/2009 16:11:53 »
The fact that you need to ask for examples means that you are ignorant of how science works and/or have not read the bible. Just open up to almost any page where the topic is God and you'll see the contradictions between God and reality.
 

Offline BenV

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #135 on: 17/02/2009 16:40:06 »
Can't wait to take a different turn in this discussion. We are discussing the existence of a creator.
Well, we were discussing the absence of mathematical proof of the existence of god.

You think there is a god, I do not.  You cannot prove it to me, and I cannot disprove it to you.

I think the burden of proof is on you to prove your fairy exists, you feel it's my responsibility to prove it doesn't.

Where is this going to get us?

Why don't we just debate the existence of elves?
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #136 on: 17/02/2009 18:53:35 »
This blog entry says something about the lack of evidence for god: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/02/effectively_non-existent.php
 

lyner

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #137 on: 17/02/2009 20:05:48 »
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WOW. You can't wait for the world to end. You see decline everywhere when there's really none.

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the Bible shows that, in spite of the evidence that the “last days” were at hand, people would not believe it. Instead, they would ridicule: 'All things are continuing as they always have been.'

Actually this discussion has been dragging on because of something I mentioned along the thread that we are living in the last days.
Can't wait to take a different turn in this discussion. We are discussing the existence of a creator.

I'm afraid that a lame argument of yours turned round and bit you. Of course the notion of 'last days' is a nonsense one. We've had so many false endings to the World that it's got boring - and we're still here.
Perception of the past follows the inverse square law if one lacks rigour in one's analysis.
And we're actually looking for a "Mathematical Proof". Let's be having one then.
 

Offline latebind

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #138 on: 17/02/2009 21:19:26 »
My thinking...

In my opinion
maths is objective, God is subjective,quite hard to mix the two directly...
Maths probably can't prove god, the same as it can't prove my favourite color is red.

On the other hand
If it is possible, it would probably happen through music. Maths is very tightly linked to music and music is linked to our emotions, and our emotions are linked to our soul.

« Last Edit: 17/02/2009 21:24:37 by latebind »
 

Offline Don_1

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #139 on: 17/02/2009 21:32:26 »
I have two souls, one on each shoe........ Oh! and The Beatles 'Rubber Soul'  .........

And, of course, not forgetting my ar

What did I say? What did I say?

I was only going to say Let me say it will you, you, why you.....
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #140 on: 18/02/2009 07:20:28 »
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In the United States today, we have tens of thousands of priests, rabbis, mullahs, pastors, and preachers who are paid professionals, who claim to be active and functioning mediators between people and omnipotent invisible masters of the universe. They make specific claims about their god's nature, what he's made of and what he isn't, how he thinks and acts, what you should do to propitiate it…they somehow seem to have amazingly detailed information about this being. Yet, when a scientist approaches with a critical eye, suddenly it is a creature that not only has never been observed, but cannot observed, and its actions invisible, impalpible, and immaterial.
If that's the evidence against God's existence....
You are asking the wrong people.

From what I gathered from that article, there is absolutely nothing to prove God's nonexistence. Worse still he is just making fun of creationists. Once you start generalizing creationists, then you are not playing by the rules. I for one don't think dinosaurs are proof that God doesn't exist or even the old ape fossils.

Creationism is by me the notion of the universe created by intelligence and not by impossible chance.

Darwin never concluded that he's observations and deductions meant God doesn't exist. He's followers though try to depict it that way.

I never said I have mathematical proof of God's existence. It's an absurd notion.
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #141 on: 18/02/2009 07:33:37 »
You're not making much sense. You haven't read the blog entry properly either.

"Worse still"?
"Creationism is by me the notion of the universe created by intelligence and not by impossible chance."
That's the kind of creationism that academics are fighting against.

This is not about Darwin. Science does not depend on Darwin.

If you have unambiguous evidence for anything you are claiming, please present it. Otherwise, please stop making stuff up.
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #142 on: 18/02/2009 08:32:04 »
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You're not making much sense. You haven't read the blog entry properly either.
Maybe you can show me what evidence is there in the blog. I didn't see any. For one thing one of the blog users gives a good example of something influenced on by the spirit realm, dowsing. Though I believe it is influenced by bad spirits.

And to say God hidden from man is way too much. The whole universe is a good example. Do you know the most influential man ever on earth?
 

Offline _Stefan_

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #143 on: 18/02/2009 08:58:15 »
I can't imagine what it must be like to be in your head. I can't follow your logic.

Pharyngula readers are influenced by bad spirits? WTF?

The blog was pointing out that there is no evidence for god. It's up to those who claim there is a god to provide the evidence.

To say that the universe and it's contents is evidence for god is not valid, because there is no way to distinguish this from the alternative, that the universe arose and developed by natural processes. There is no way to test that god hypothesis and reach the conclusion that god is real, because all the evidence can be explained by reasonable natural answers.

If god wanted science to think that he doesn't exist, he's done everything in his power to make it seem that way.
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #144 on: 18/02/2009 09:40:17 »
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Pharyngula readers are influenced by bad spirits?
I never said that. Dowsing is.

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To say that the universe and it's contents is evidence for god is not valid, because there is no way to distinguish this from the alternative, that the universe arose and developed by natural processes. There is no way to test that god hypothesis and reach the conclusion that god is real, because all the evidence can be explained by reasonable natural answers.

And have you ever sat down to think that those 'reasonable natural answers' are guided by certain rules that made it possible for the universe to exist in the first place?

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that the universe arose and developed by natural processes

An unguided explosion would have left many loop holes for chaotic debris that could not be studied by 'reasonable' science. And by all means even if the singularity had no source, it would never have exploded into a sustainable universe with all the elements we know.

Talking of the big bang, the early empty spaces that made it possible for the stars to ignite can not be explained if the big bang was not designed and guided. Note too that singularities don't explode under normal conditions. By 'reasonable' science, they don't explode.

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I can't imagine what it must be like to be in your head. I can't follow your logic.

Try to read my threads carefully and with a neutral perspective.
« Last Edit: 18/02/2009 09:43:32 by demadone »
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #145 on: 18/02/2009 09:53:25 »
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The fact that you need to ask for examples means that you are ignorant of how science works and/or have not read the bible. Just open up to almost any page where the topic is God and you'll see the contradictions between God and reality.
I think that is what make things up is. You still can't come up with any examples of what you mean.
 

Offline Don_1

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #146 on: 18/02/2009 09:57:21 »
For pity sake!!!!

There can be no evidence, mathematical or otherwise, fore or against the existence of any Gods.

We all make our own individual choice based on what evidence there is, what theory there is and the writings, findings, theories and beliefs of scientists and theologians and the bloke down the pub.

We are free to follow whichever path we choose, be it atheist, agnostic, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism or paganism, just as we are free to follow Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band, Take That or Dolly Parton; just as we are free to choose between Ford, Nissan or BMW.

My atheism has no effect on any other person. It is my choice and my choice alone. If you choose to believe in God, so be it, may your God be with you.

Can we not be adult enough to leave it at that, and agree to disagree? This argument is getting nobody anywhere.
 

Offline demadone

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #147 on: 18/02/2009 10:05:27 »
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There can be no evidence, mathematical or otherwise, fore or against the existence of any Gods.
I through in a few lines of evidence in the thread (MessageID: 228803). Unless perhaps you don't know much about the big bang and it's early stages.
 

Offline dentstudent

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #148 on: 18/02/2009 10:23:56 »
This is basically just a big game of "Spot the Logical Fallacy". God of the Gaps features very prominantly....Any additions anyone?
 

Offline BenV

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
« Reply #149 on: 18/02/2009 10:24:31 »
I'm with Don_1 on this, and will re-state my earlier post:

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You think there is a god, I do not.  You cannot prove it to me, and I cannot disprove it to you.

I think the burden of proof is on you to prove your fairy exists, you feel it's my responsibility to prove it doesn't.

Where is this going to get us?

There is no sensible debate here, and certainly no science.  We could continue to argue this forever, as there is no scientific evidence for god, yet those who believe in a god see 'evidence' everywhere they look.

I hope everyone can be happy believing what they want to believe, without trying to foist it upon others.

I'm locking this thread now.  PM me if you feel it's really worth having this thread still ongoing on a science forum.
 

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Is there any mathematical proof of the existence of God?
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