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Author Topic: Big Bang and Absolute Time Frame  (Read 2669 times)

Offline IanPhillips

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Big Bang and Absolute Time Frame
« on: 07/09/2008 12:04:02 »
If we accept the Big Bang, and I think the evidence strongly supports it, then doesn't this imply that there's an absolute, or preferred time frame starting from the Big Bang. Yet doesn't think conflict with Relativity theory, for which the evidence is also overwhelming.

I'm not implying that either of these theories is flawed, just my understanding so I'd appreciate it if someone could clarify this.


 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Big Bang and Absolute Time Frame
« Reply #1 on: 07/09/2008 23:57:40 »
It's not quite as simple as that.  Remember that as you travel faster and faster (get more energy) time slows down and for particles that travel at the speed of light time has stopped altogether. so for things that are flying out if the big bang with vast quantities of energy time is passing much slower and is not so precisely defined.  This is the opposite side of the coin that is not often considered.
« Last Edit: 08/09/2008 11:26:27 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline IanPhillips

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Big Bang and Absolute Time Frame
« Reply #2 on: 08/09/2008 06:23:20 »
Soul Surfer,

I'm not sure that I understand your second sentence. I do understand relativity as I studied physics at university, admittedly a few ago now.

Are you saying that as the different particles in the universe were created and are travelling at different velocities they each possess their own time and space co-ordinates?
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Big Bang and Absolute Time Frame
« Reply #3 on: 08/09/2008 11:54:48 »
The time dilation caused by travelling at high velocity was observed in the long distances travelled by high energy particles before they decay.

I personally do not consider that singularities make any physical sense and that looking back to the high density high energy state of the universe there is a lot of unclear thinking it is just that it's much easier for the mathematicians extrapolating back towards a point.  MY comments were intended to suggest that as you get towards the "point" It it will become fuzzier but it is difficult to analyse things that way

Your question touches on a topic if great interest to me and I feel that it may best be understood by looking in the other and more normal direction of time and studying what happens to a rotating black hole as it collapses inside its event horizon.  This does not need quantum gravity and could be modelled.

Let me give you a simple description.

the most important feature of the contents of a rotating black hole is angular momentum and this prevents the collapse to a point because it must be conserved and to collapse to a point implies infinite energy.  Kerr suggested it would form a "ring singularity" but that to is not the case because residual angular momentum will prevent this too.  The best image I can give is a toroidal three dimensional membrane in four dimensional space time.  initially the quantum particles will be very hot and violently interacting as they make their orbits but eventually as they settle down into more parallel orbits things will quieten sown with particles orbiting and not interecting very violently.  what then does the universe "look like" to an individual particle well they are in an intense gravitational field and travelling at velocities approaching that of light and so time is going very slowly for them and gradually going slower as they cool down and the fields become more intense.  secondly they are in a state of "free fall" and unaware of the fields generating this process.  so the particles will see an expanding and largely flat spaced universe which will get bigger for them as the universe cools down.  isn't this rather like the big bang?!

The dimensions of our space time have both real and imaginary components and when a black hole collapses the real dimensions collapse and the imaginary dimensions expand this gives us our missing dimensions and even the strings which are the orbits of the particles it also gives us a scale invariant universe in which the very large and the very small are essentially the same thing.

I lack the mathematical skill to prove this but would be most interested to hear from someone who might do the model.  I have seen some analyses of the collapse of rotating black holes but they tend to stop at the event horizon where it really starts to get interesting.
« Last Edit: 08/09/2008 12:10:30 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline IanPhillips

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Big Bang and Absolute Time Frame
« Reply #4 on: 08/09/2008 16:33:07 »
I understand about time dilation and increase of mass with increase of velocity. And it may be that the Big Bang implies a number of complications with regard to singularities possibly requiring multi-dimensional space to answer but I think my question is simpler:

General Relativity 'predicts' the Big Bang in terms of the expanding universe. The Big Bang as an event implies a starting time for the universe which seems to suggest that there is a preferred time frame i.e Universal Time. But a preferred time frame contradicts relativity. I assume that I'm misunderstanding something at a fairly 'simple' level in relativity theory but don't know what.
 

Offline LeeE

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Big Bang and Absolute Time Frame
« Reply #5 on: 09/09/2008 18:49:09 »
The thing to remember about time is that it's directionless and always greater than zero.  Any movement along it will still leave you in a +ve region of time, so yes, everything has it's own spacetime coordinates, but they are all the same side of the BB.  It's no different really to having a group of people counting the positive integers, starting from zero, at different speeds - the people may all be on a different number, at any one point in time, but they'll all still be +ve integers.

Yes, there is an absolute time frame but it can't actually be viewed from within the universe because anything within the universe will be in it's own spacetime frame.
 

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« Reply #5 on: 09/09/2008 18:49:09 »

 

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