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Author Topic: Is perpetual motion impossible?  (Read 59438 times)

lyner

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #150 on: 26/11/2008 16:39:40 »
ABH
Quote
I have had 3 near runners up to date.
That's like saying you're almost a virgin. PM is an absolute.

Don_1
Your two magnets will eventually come to rest with the strings pushed outwards a bit - depending on actual angles and magnet strengths etc.  Balancing forces has nothing to do with transferring energy. This is SO fundamental. If you are to have a sensible conversation about these things you can't avoid the meanings and the definitions of Energy, Work, Efficiency etc.
A force of 100N, 10000N or 100000N can't do any work until it starts to MOVE something. Just sitting there doesn't involve any energy transfer at all.

You know, there really are better things to concern oneself with than what is, frankly, untried nonsense. If these odd ideas were to have any merit, the PM machine would have been working and giving us free energy for years. It hasn't because much much greater minds than yours have applied themselves to it and concluded that it is a failure. Let's be a little humble before we say that past Science is full of dolts who have 'missed something'.
How many, would-be, PM inventors have managed to understand all of Newtonian Mechanics, Classical EM theory and Classical Thermodynamics? You'd need to be at least that smart before you could reject the Science which has shown how much nonsense PM is. Optimism and arrogance are not enough.
 

Offline Bikerman

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #151 on: 26/11/2008 16:50:03 »
I have to agree.
People seem very ready to reject classical physics without really understanding it.
Many of them (and I'm not suggesting this applies here) even cite quantum physics to support their lack of understanding of classical physics, thus we frequently see;
"don't bother learning Newtonian physics because it's all quantum innit"

Once you have a sound understanding of classical physics (which includes the boundaries where it breaks down) then you can take a more considered view of this type of proposal. Unfortunately for the proponents, the considered view is - it dun't work!
 

lyner

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #152 on: 26/11/2008 19:45:28 »
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.
How can you possibly claim to understand the new stuff if you don't get the stuff it's based on. I think it's a love of buzz words rather than a love of trying to understand things.
 

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Offline Don_1

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #153 on: 27/11/2008 08:02:12 »
Shrunk
WOWGOLDS, BUZZ OFF!
 

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lyner

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #154 on: 27/11/2008 08:21:23 »
Shrunk
Warcraft. That says it all.
Fantasy.
 

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Offline dentstudent

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #155 on: 27/11/2008 08:27:02 »
Shrunk
WOWGOLDS, BUZZ OFF!
I've just reported them.....
 

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Offline daveshorts

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #156 on: 27/11/2008 09:54:05 »
Shrunk
I have fairly comprehensively banned wowgolds
 

Offline Don_1

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #157 on: 27/11/2008 10:07:39 »
sophiecentaur, This was not an attempt to outsmart anyone or anything of the sort, my appologies if it came across that way, it was really just a thought and as I asked 'would the magnets eventually come to rest?' was an admission of the probable failings of such a set-up.

BTW, I don't think that any PM machine, even if one could be invented, would be able to generate power in excess of the power it requires to move itself.
 

lyner

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #158 on: 27/11/2008 15:44:27 »
Don_1
Sorry if I over reacted but this thread has been verging on the ridiculous.
Any system which is free to move will come to rest, eventually, in a minimum energy state as energy is lost from it. It's only a matter of time.
 

Offline Bikerman

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #159 on: 27/11/2008 18:49:37 »
Don_1
Sorry if I over reacted but this thread has been verging on the ridiculous.
Any system which is free to move will come to rest, eventually, in a minimum energy state as energy is lost from it. It's only a matter of time.

Careful Sophie...you need to qualify that....
 

lyner

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #160 on: 28/11/2008 10:37:15 »
Very few virgins, I'll admit but some of it is ridiculous.
 

Offline dentstudent

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« Reply #161 on: 28/11/2008 10:44:27 »
virgin on the ridiculous?

(Just thought i'd state the blindingly obvious...)
 

Offline AB Hammer

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« Reply #162 on: 28/11/2008 13:17:28 »
LMAO ridiculous? LMAO

  Strong word for science. The same word was used for the Wright Brothers, Tesla, and many more. The term impossible and ridiculous are never good words for science, but prove the hypothesis by research and "trial and error". History of failure is not proof that it can not be done either, but it does give a warning to those who try. My studies of Bessler says it was done. I get my info from eye witnesses and how much he had to fight, which logic says he truly had done it. You need to look up John Collins books and the letters written about Bessler. It makes for interesting reading.
 

lyner

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #163 on: 28/11/2008 14:40:06 »
Only ignorant people laughed at the Wright Brothers - birds have been flying for years - there's nothing fundamentally different about powered flight, it's just a matter of degree. If you had claimed to have made a bearing which is more efficient than any bearing made so far no one would be laughing at the idea.
Tesla was a showman who claimed more than he achieved. He was far from wrong in everything, though, of course.

BTW, it's not 'a history of failure' that tells us it can't be done. It's a history of SUCCESSFUL Science which supplies a lot of evidence that it can't be done. If the only evidence which you have is from some reports of some events hundreds of years ago then you should use your head and not your heart before committing to it.
 

Offline Bikerman

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #164 on: 28/11/2008 15:59:27 »
It really is quite simple. There is no combination of gravitational potential energy, angular momentum and rotational inertia which can possibly produce PM. This is kids stuff - Newtonian physics 101.
 

Offline AB Hammer

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« Reply #165 on: 28/11/2008 22:25:59 »
Only ignorant people laughed at the Wright Brothers

 Main stream science learned a new understanding when the Wright Brothers flew. And once I am done, there will be another new understanding. You just have to learn what to overcome and do it.

 I wish I could show what I have learned but it would expose my hand to soon. You can call me names, and believe I am mistaken and such. But in the end the names will change and you will have your very own V8 moment with understanding. ;D
 

lyner

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #166 on: 28/11/2008 23:51:28 »
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Main stream science learned a new understanding when the Wright Brothers flew
You, of course, have references to support that statement? Their's was an engineering first - not a Scientific breakthrough. Do you seriously think they upset anyone's theory when they got an aircraft to fly? Do you understand the difference between Scientific advance and Engineering development?

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I wish I could show what I have learned
Unless you showed me something  that bikerman didn't mention in his last post then you would have nothing worthwhile to show me. And, if it was that brand new, you wouldn't be flailing wheels around. Your machine would be totally unlike anything your historical idol could have assembled. It would be beyond your imagination

 

Offline AB Hammer

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« Reply #167 on: 29/11/2008 01:12:27 »
OK sophiecentaur

 I will tell you that it is simple. and most likely you have seen what has to be done in other machines. But you have to know the correct combination to make it happen.  [O8)]

LOL The secret to the universe is? I will tell you when I am good and D@#7 ready. :D
 

lyner

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #168 on: 29/11/2008 10:47:03 »
Do you have to say a magic spell at the same time?
 

lyner

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #169 on: 29/11/2008 10:48:11 »
Which Scientific Law did the Wright Brothers violate, btw?
 

Offline Pumblechook

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #170 on: 29/11/2008 12:24:58 »
Tesla is a bit of a fraud.  Not a good example to quote.



 

Offline AB Hammer

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« Reply #171 on: 29/11/2008 14:05:18 »
Which Scientific Law did the Wright Brothers violate, btw?

They didn't. That is what I have been trying to say. A new understanding, for main stream science felt that Man flight outside of a baloon was improvable back then, but now say PM is impossible when improvable would be a better statement up till now.

Pumblechook

 Tesla may have been a bit flaky, but he was no fraud. You need to look into his history and you will see how much impact he had made into our lives. Alternating current, remote control, Radio, and on and on. But big money did try to bury his name and Hollywood villainized him as a mad scientist. 
« Last Edit: 29/11/2008 14:08:04 by AB Hammer »
 

lyner

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #172 on: 29/11/2008 15:28:14 »
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for main stream science felt that Man flight outside of a baloon was improvable back then
You must be able to quote someone from 'mainstream Science' before you can make a statement like that. Newton wouldn't have said it was impossible if he had been told about the internal combustion engine.

How can you 'improve' beyond a fundamental limit? It's not just a matter of getting better oil, you know.

There were a lot of vested interests in the ENGINEERING of Tesla's day. AC vs DC was only a VHS vs Betamax argument. And, of course, there were a lot of ignorant people about then, too. Can't you distinguish  between that category of discussion and what you are proposing. I can only conclude that you haven't understood what you are saying and what, in your ignorance, you are rejecting. It is just naive enthusiasm talking.
Or perhaps you could assure me (and demonstrate) that you are perfectly familiar with Thermodynamic principles and all of Classical Mechanics and can tell me the essential hole in all the arguments against PM. Also, of course, if you are correct, then there will be all sorts of 'knock-ons' which would seriously change the world as we see it.
I'm afraid that you are demonstrating some fantastic arrogance about the matter.
 

Offline Pumblechook

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #173 on: 29/11/2008 16:24:10 »
Tesla didn't invent very much at all.

Totally overrated.

E.G 3 phase AC was pioneered in Britain by John Hopkinson before Tesla had even arrived in the USA.

Some of Teslas claims and/or the claims of his fans are plain barmy.  Like a radio controlled boat in 1896 when most of the components needed to make such a thing possible hadn't been invented then.   It is just about possible he might have made a boat which started off..no steering.. and possibly a stop signal.   

And the suggestion that Tesla invented technology which has been suppressed in these more than one hundred years is particularly barmy. 
« Last Edit: 29/11/2008 16:31:16 by Pumblechook »
 

Offline AB Hammer

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #174 on: 29/11/2008 17:29:31 »
LOL

 How many of you believe that the earth travels around the sun? Or to put it another way.
How many of you believe the sun is the center of our solar system?  ;D 
 

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Is perpetual motion impossible?
« Reply #174 on: 29/11/2008 17:29:31 »

 

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