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Author Topic: In quantum entanglement, how are things linked together?  (Read 15058 times)

Will

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Will asked the Naked Scientists:

In Quantum Entanglement, exactly how are the objects linked together? What force or energy connects them? How do they "communicate?"

What do you think?
« Last Edit: 17/06/2015 07:55:48 by chris »


 

Offline Evie

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #1 on: 24/09/2008 17:30:52 »
This topic makes my brain spin....both up and down.... :D
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #2 on: 25/09/2008 09:37:36 »
I don't think anyone actually knows the answer. It just happens, as do many things in quantum mechanics.
 

Offline JP

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #3 on: 25/09/2008 22:41:58 »
Classical physics says that when two objects are connected, they are connected by forces/energies/particles.  All of these classical connections are easy to think of because we see examples of them every day.

Quantum mechanics introduced an entirely new way to connect two objects: entanglement.  Entanglement is tough to explain because it doesn't depend on any classical ways of connecting things.  It's also not something intuitive, like forces, since we aren't used to seeing its effects.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #4 on: 25/09/2008 22:46:03 »

Quantum mechanics introduced an entirely new way to connect two objects: entanglement.  Entanglement is tough to explain because it doesn't depend on any classical ways of connecting things.  It's also not something intuitive, like forces, since we aren't used to seeing its effects.

In other words no-one can explain it  :P
 

Offline JP

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #5 on: 25/09/2008 22:53:39 »
One the one hand, yeah.  It just is that way.  :)

On the other hand (on some level) you just have to accept that the forces that connect things just "exist."  We just happen to intuitively grasp them a lot easier, and we've studied them a lot longer. 
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #6 on: 25/09/2008 23:17:54 »
One the one hand, yeah.  It just is that way.  :)

On the other hand (on some level) you just have to accept that the forces that connect things just "exist."  We just happen to intuitively grasp them a lot easier, and we've studied them a lot longer. 

And QFT seems to explain them quite nicely (except for gravity). Quantum Entanglement is very different in that respect.
 

Offline JP

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #7 on: 26/09/2008 02:12:45 »
To take this on more of a tangent, the odd thing to me is that forces are so obvious to think about, but so complicated when you get down to trying to figure out how they work on a quantum level.  Entanglement is so bizarre and abstract to picture, but it drops out of the equations of QM fairly painlessly.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #8 on: 26/09/2008 10:41:53 »
What I find strange is that scientists accept the existence of forces they can't explain, yet dismiss out of hand the possibility of forces such as psychokinesis or telepathy. Yes, I appreciate that the known forces have been demonstrated experimentally and that puts them on a more scientific footing. But to say something doesn't exists simply because it hasn't been successfully demonstrated under laboratory conditions seems a bit narrow-minded.

They can surmise dark matter to account for phenomena regarding galaxies & gravity - we can't see it, touch it, hear it, or anything else it. Yet when someone thinks of a person who subsequently phones or visits out of the blue, that's just coincidence.
 

Offline LeeE

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #9 on: 26/09/2008 16:49:36 »
I'm not saying that I actually believe this...

...but an alternative way of looking at the instantaneous communication of state between two separated Quantum Entangled particles is to view them as just a single particle that happens to be in two places at the same time.  Just as weird, of course:)
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #10 on: 26/09/2008 17:03:21 »
I'm not saying that I actually believe this...

...but an alternative way of looking at the instantaneous communication of state between two separated Quantum Entangled particles is to view them as just a single particle that happens to be in two places at the same time.  Just as weird, of course:)

I'm not convinced. They could have different directions of motion, different velocities, etc.. How could that be if they were 1 and the same particle? You would have to do some very strange things to spacetime for it to work.
 

Offline LeeE

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #11 on: 27/09/2008 22:07:53 »
It's not something I believe - it's just a logical possibility.

It would be something akin to a torus intersecting a plane (with the torus looping above and below the plane - not aligned across the plane's surface)  You'd then have a single object that appears to be in two places on the plane.  Moreover, you'd be seeing different parts of the same object at the two locations and on top of that, the object itself could be changing over time.

It's an extra-dimensional solution, of course, but then QE can't be explained in the context of our four-dimensional space-time anyway, which in turn suggests an extra-dimensional solution.
 

lyner

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #12 on: 27/09/2008 22:50:34 »
What I find strange is that scientists accept the existence of forces they can't explain, yet dismiss out of hand the possibility of forces such as psychokinesis or telepathy. Yes, I appreciate that the known forces have been demonstrated experimentally and that puts them on a more scientific footing. But to say something doesn't exists simply because it hasn't been successfully demonstrated under laboratory conditions seems a bit narrow-minded.

They can surmise dark matter to account for phenomena regarding galaxies & gravity - we can't see it, touch it, hear it, or anything else it. Yet when someone thinks of a person who subsequently phones or visits out of the blue, that's just coincidence.
I think there is a huge difference between the two. Science experiments can be repeated and repeated, yielding consistent results. Even the variability involved with quantum effects follows are reliable pattern. The forces are suggested as reasons for certain effects which can be repeated.
Has anyone ever demonstrated that sort of reliability in fringe non-Science such as telekinesis?
 

Offline DarthTutor

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #13 on: 27/09/2008 23:02:56 »
Quantum entagnlement isn't all that mysterious once you're getting used to the way quantum mechanics describes our world. First of all you need to know that both classical and quantum mechanics describes our world in terms of "states". There are two main differences between classical and quantum states:

1] Unlike in classical physics, in quantum physics an object doesn't need to be in one particular state but can also be in a "superposition" of states. Such a superposition is not a statistical mix of two states, but it is a pure state all by itself.

2] In any given quantum state some observed quantities may not be measurable with infinite precision as a matter of principle. Most wellknown is the fact that momentum and position are not simultaneously measurable with infinite precision. This is not due to a lack of measuring accuracy, rather quantum states, are in some sense, structurally incapable of "storing" all the information needed to allow such double infinite precision.

If we discus a system consisting of multiple objects, A, B, C, ..., one way to describe them quantum mechanically is by assigning a seperate state S(A), S(B), S(C)_,..., to each object. The system as a whole can then be described by a state which is the "product" of the seperate states S(whole) = S(A)S(B)S(C)...
However, superpositions of such states are also allowed. And some superpositions cannot be written as a single product of states. These superpositions are called "entangled states" and the object A, B, C, ... are said to be "entagled". It essentially means that the objects lose aspects of their individuality in the description of the whole.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #14 on: 27/09/2008 23:18:25 »
What I find strange is that scientists accept the existence of forces they can't explain, yet dismiss out of hand the possibility of forces such as psychokinesis or telepathy. Yes, I appreciate that the known forces have been demonstrated experimentally and that puts them on a more scientific footing. But to say something doesn't exists simply because it hasn't been successfully demonstrated under laboratory conditions seems a bit narrow-minded.

They can surmise dark matter to account for phenomena regarding galaxies & gravity - we can't see it, touch it, hear it, or anything else it. Yet when someone thinks of a person who subsequently phones or visits out of the blue, that's just coincidence.
I think there is a huge difference between the two. Science experiments can be repeated and repeated, yielding consistent results. Even the variability involved with quantum effects follows are reliable pattern. The forces are suggested as reasons for certain effects which can be repeated.
Has anyone ever demonstrated that sort of reliability in fringe non-Science such as telekinesis?

Maybe not reliability; but there are enough examples to make some scientists think that something is going on that they can't explain.
 

Offline Bart

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #15 on: 27/07/2009 05:35:34 »
The answer may be that the particles appear to be independent individuals but are in fact connected, in a way that we are not currently able to discern.

One admittedly incomplete example:  Imagine that we are a water bug.   We know only the surface of the pond, and can move freely on that large surface.   Then, we see two individual eyes separated by 10 inches, each right on the surface of the water.  They don't appear connected to us but in reality they are connected underwater, to the face of an alligator.

To me, quantum entanglement is strongly suggestive of there being additional spatial dimensions that we have yet to discern how to sense and observe.  It may be only a matter of time before we find a way to do so, and what waits for us there could be astonishing beyond belief.

For example, we could learn that all living things are in fact connected.   We could also learn that our consciousness in this dimension is a small outgrowth of our true selves, which exist differently.   This other dimension could be the place where most or all intelligent life goes when it reaches "maturity."   

I hope we find out soon.
 

Offline exton

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #16 on: 27/07/2009 07:43:24 »
Maybe not reliability; but there are enough examples to make some scientists think that something is going on that they can't explain.

There's no scientific evidence suggesting the existence of such things at all. There are plenty of unverifiable anecdotes and there's lots of innuendo, but no scientific evidence.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #17 on: 09/08/2009 12:01:32 »
To me, quantum entanglement is strongly suggestive of there being additional spatial dimensions that we have yet to discern how to sense and observe.  It may be only a matter of time before we find a way to do so, and what waits for us there could be astonishing beyond belief.

That's my thought on the subject.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #18 on: 09/08/2009 12:12:14 »
Maybe not reliability; but there are enough examples to make some scientists think that something is going on that they can't explain.

There's no scientific evidence suggesting the existence of such things at all. There are plenty of unverifiable anecdotes and there's lots of innuendo, but no scientific evidence.

I fully appreciate that there is no scientific evidence for such phenomena, but having experienced it personally on quite a number of occasions I cannot deny that it exists. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It could be that there are so many factors involved that we haven't yet scientifically created the precise conditions required.
 

Offline LeeE

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #19 on: 09/08/2009 12:49:42 »
To me, quantum entanglement is strongly suggestive of there being additional spatial dimensions that we have yet to discern how to sense and observe.  It may be only a matter of time before we find a way to do so, and what waits for us there could be astonishing beyond belief.

That's my thought on the subject.

I'm not sure there's scope for an additional spatial dimension, or at least one that can't be summed with our three known spatial dimensions.

The phenomenon of relativistic time-dilation seems to tell us a lot about how many dimensions we seem to be dealing with in practice.  If you plot the normalised rate of time against the summed and normalised speed through space you end up with a circular quadrant of constant radius, which appears to show that the sum of the rates of movement through time and space is constant and equal to 'c'.

Now if there was an additional dimension, which couldn't be summed with one or other of the other two, you'd have to raise the plot from a 2D circular quadrant to a spherical 3D surface instead and, if the radius of the sphere remained constant in three dimensions, we should see variations in the radius of the 2D circle as the radius lifts up into the third axis and so foreshortens in the other two axis.  We don't seem to see this though.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #20 on: 09/08/2009 15:49:47 »
LeeE - what about dimensional compactification? The extra dimension would be so tiny it wouldn't have any noticeable effect on time dilation; at least, not over distances that we can measure accurately enough.
 

Offline LeeE

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #21 on: 10/08/2009 19:41:26 »
Do you mean so that the radius could only lift up from the 2D plane by just a very small amount?  That would mean that the compactified dimension could only accommodate a very small range of values and couldn't allow a normalised 0-1 range.  The only values it could accommodate would be either a small range of values from 0 or from 1, but couldn't ever include 0.5, from either start value.

A bit weird, but it doesn't seem to be intrinsically impossible.  Instead of a complete spherical 3D surface you'd have an open/truncated spheroid, but you would need an additional factor, or law, to control the truncation and its depth, whereas a complete spherical surface still needs only its radius to loft from a 2D plane to a 3D surface.  Basically, this comes down to finding an explanation and reason, or factor, for why some particular dimensions are compactified when others are not.  It's the introduction of that additional factor, where it would be held or stored and how it acts, that bothers me about that solution though.  You would seem to need to add even more to make the addition work, and so on...
 

Offline Stefanb

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #22 on: 11/08/2009 03:33:20 »
Space is very bendable...
So for a stretch  ;) perhaps two particles connected by Quantum Entanglement are really the same particle on an overlapping plane of space.

Laughable- yes. Conceivable- oh... wait a minute.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #23 on: 11/08/2009 09:22:42 »
Quantum entangement is one of the most mysterious things about our universe and seems to suggest that our universe is simultaneously very large (as we see it) and very small (as the entangled particles see it).  This is as yet unexplained but I feel that eventually we will come up with a model that explains how this happens.

The string theorists have some ideas how this might happen but have too many theories to work through at the moment.  I have suggested an attractive analysable and simpler approach that could be proved right or wrong using current knowledge and technology in the new theories topic  "evolutionary cosmolgy"
« Last Edit: 11/08/2009 09:30:34 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline lonequark

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What is quantum entanglement?
« Reply #24 on: 21/08/2009 15:46:29 »
could our universe be a hologram?
 

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What is quantum entanglement?
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