# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Is there more matter and energy outside the Universe?  (Read 3347 times)

#### petrovitch

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##### Is there more matter and energy outside the Universe?
« on: 27/09/2008 19:15:36 »
If the universe is expanding faster over time then doesn't this mean that the universe as we know it is surrounded by other large bodies of matter or energy?  Maybe we're surrounded by other points of singularity that have not initiated the big bang.  Expanding I can accept without the presence of other bodies, but accelerating?  Only the electromagnetic forces of something else, something massive, could explain this.  Can we measure the rate of expansion and determine the mass of other objects required to cause the rate of acceleration?

If this is true, then time does not have a beginning and and end, but is relative to the evolution of each point of singularity?  And if we are surrounded by other massive bodies, larger than our universe, then what happens when these bodies collide?  We've seen asteroids bombard Jupiter, and even the collision of galaxies.

If stars are at the center of solar systems, and black holes are at the center of galaxies, then what remains at the point of singularity at the center of our universe?  And is there something at the center of this network of universes or are they placed at random?

What happens when a black hole consumes it's own galaxy?

We assume the point of singularity was a massive compaction of matter; what if it was composed of pure energy?

« Last Edit: 27/09/2008 22:44:49 by chris »

#### DoctorBeaver

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##### Is there more matter and energy outside the Universe?
« Reply #1 on: 29/09/2008 08:12:52 »
WHOAH! Slow down, there - I say, SLOW DOWN! That's a lot of questions.

First, you have to define "universe". By normal definition, it means everything there is; therefore there cannot be anything outside of it.

Physicists & cosmologists often refer to the "visible universe"; that is, everything that we can see. We have no way of knowing what lies outside of this region.

There are, though, theories that say that our universe is not the be all and end all of everything; that there are, in fact, other domains that do not lie within the bounds of our universe. For instance, there is the Many Worlds theory in quantum mechanics.

Other theories say that we live on a 3-dimensional brane in a higher-dimensional "bulk".

No-one knows what is causing the rate of expansion of the universe to accelerate. Dark energy is probably the most common theory at present.

I'm in a bit of a rush at the moment, but I'll try to address your other points later.

#### DoctorBeaver

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##### Is there more matter and energy outside the Universe?
« Reply #2 on: 29/09/2008 16:44:11 »
"Time", as we know it, started with the birth of the universe we can see. Maybe there was something else in existence somewhere else, but we could never know about that.

As for time inside a singularity, no-one knows. The laws of physics as we understand them break down inside singularities. There are speculations, but as we don't have the science to know, these are little more than guesses. There needs to be a quantum theory of gravity to explain it, but no current theories are on sound-enough footing for them to be more than speculation.

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If stars are at the center of solar systems, and black holes are at the center of galaxies, then what remains at the point of singularity at the center of our universe?

As hard as it is to understand, there is no "centre of the universe". The easiest way to visualise that is by looking at the surface of a ball - where is the centre of the surface? Our universe is like the ball's surface, but in 3 dimensions not 2.

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What happens when a black hole consumes it's own galaxy?

I doubt that a black hole could consume an entire galaxy. It's gravity would be no greater than a star of the same mass. At the centre of galaxies there are a lot of stars that could fall into the black hole's gravity well, but eventually its gravity, although increased, would not be strong enough to draw in those from further out. The inverse square law states that the pull of gravity is the inverse of the square of the distance between the objects. So, stars that are twice as far away from the black hole would feel only 1/4 of its gravitational pull, 3 times further away and the pull is only 1/9th. So, you can see that stars further out would not be affected that much.

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We assume the point of singularity was a massive compaction of matter; what if it was composed of pure energy?

E=mc2 relates matter to energy. I have always believed that when matter gets compressed beyond a certain limit, it turns to energy. That avoids the infinite density of a singularity.
« Last Edit: 29/09/2008 16:56:55 by DoctorBeaver »

#### DoctorBeaver

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##### Is there more matter and energy outside the Universe?
« Reply #3 on: 29/09/2008 16:50:31 »
I have recommended that this thread be moved to the Physics & Cosmology section.

#### petrovitch

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##### Is there more matter and energy outside the Universe?
« Reply #4 on: 30/09/2008 13:33:29 »
I understand your point, but think about it this way:  the multiverse, is like a sheet on a bed, and we will place our universe in the middle of the bed.  It will be represented by a bolling ball.  But this universe is an infant.  It is still a point of singularity.  Now, place another bolling ball, weight does not matter, on each corner of the bed (in reality this bed, or fabric of space, had no corners and has no end, but you get the idea -- it's just a mental image).  Our point of singularity inflates.  Now, there is less matter at a single point; the shape of this form mattress morphs as the weight distribution changes.  The middle of the bed begins to rise where our universe once was.  In fact, the objects in our universe begin rolling down hill faster and faster toward these other objects. This explains expansion and the increase in speed of expansion. Occam's razor. Our universe is one of many.
« Last Edit: 30/09/2008 16:19:08 by petrovitch »

#### DoctorBeaver

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##### Is there more matter and energy outside the Universe?
« Reply #5 on: 30/09/2008 17:46:04 »
I'm not sure Occam's razor would produce your theory. For a start, you are making many assumptions and adding complexity. Surely, the simplest answer (which is what the correct application of Occam's razor would produce) is that there is a force within our universe that is driving the accelerated expansion.

You raise 1 point, though, that is valid - but possibly not in the way you stated it. If our universe is situated within a higher-dimensional bulk, then as our universe expands it could possibly affect the geometry of the bulk; curving or warping it.

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Is there more matter and energy outside the Universe?
« Reply #5 on: 30/09/2008 17:46:04 »