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Author Topic: Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?  (Read 7971 times)

joe

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joe asked the Naked Scientists:

You discussed this vaccine in your 5th Oct 2008 podcast.

One question that I've never heard asked - why aren't men getting this
vaccine? Even if men don't suffer from this virus, surely they are carriers and infect un-vaccinated women.

What do you think?


 

Offline rosy

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #1 on: 23/10/2008 12:58:17 »
Money, and also concern at exposing boys to the risk of side effects of a vaccination mainly aimed at providing herd immunity to protect women. (Tho' I've heard it suggested that there may be links between HPV and testicular cancer, which if proved may change things a bit).
 

Offline blaze

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #2 on: 24/10/2008 17:14:32 »
It wasn't too long ago that women couldn't even vote. So because men are in charge of the medical system, and they like to put the responsibilty of everything off on women, along with the risks.

Some young girls have died from this vaccine or developed paralyis. It has nothing to do with testicular cancer.

This is also the same reason why women are given hormones to prevent pregnancy. If it's an unnatural treatment, women are first in line for it. And the scariest part? - most are willing and eager.
 

Offline BenV

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #3 on: 24/10/2008 18:09:27 »
Whoa there Blaze!  The vaccine has tested safe, so please put some evidence in when you're claiming that girls have died or become paralysed due to a vaccine.  Plus, how would you know it has nothing to do with testicular cancer?  I'll admit, this is the first I have heard of it, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand as you have.

Women are offered hormones to prevent pregnancy, they aren't forced upon them.  In fact, the social benefits of the pill have been mainly to women.

Quote
If it's an unnatural treatment, women are first in line for it.
A 'natural' treatment would be to leave it alone.  HPV has more deleterious effects on women than on men.  We now have a vaccine that could cut it down severely.  If we give it to one gender, we need to give it to 80% of that gender to give herd immunity to the population.  If we're giving it to both genders, we need to give it to 80% of the  whole population.  It make sense to give it to the gender who will benefit most.
 

Offline rosy

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #4 on: 24/10/2008 18:20:54 »
Sorry, not testicular. Penile.
I don't know how good the data is, because it's in the category of things mentioned on radio 4 when I'm waking up, rather than of things I've read in referenced papers, but there are quite a lot of fairly serious-looking government information websites google-able that are taking it seriously, such as
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/risk/HPV
I suspect in Blaze's book that'd be an argument against rather than in favour of this being a genuine effect, and I don't know if it's the same strains that are causing problems in both sexes (in which case of course the vaccine for strains 16 and 18 might or might not help).
 

Offline blaze

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #5 on: 24/10/2008 23:09:39 »
I read a book which stated that a high percentage of nuns tested positive for the HPV virus, so I'm not so sure this vaccine, if it even were safe, is doing anything for the female gender - but I know you will demand proof of that statement, and I forget where I read that, and unfortunately, know no nuns personally to test;)

But, I will back the death and paralysis part up...

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jul/08070316.html
« Last Edit: 24/10/2008 23:11:13 by blaze »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #6 on: 25/10/2008 21:43:57 »
A group of people fell ill after the injection- what proof is there that they wouldn't have fallen ill anyway?
The anaphylaxis is probably a real effect but the others are likely to be coincidental.
The variety of symptoms sugests coincidence rather than causation.
 

Offline blaze

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #7 on: 26/10/2008 01:30:47 »
From the link above...

"A 14 year-old girl took six steps after being injected with the vaccine before she collapsed to the floor unconscious and foaming at the mouth. The girl regained consciousness after "a 60 second grand mal seizure" and had "pale clammy skin" and blood pressure of 60/40."

Everything seems to be coincidence with you. Why is that? There's obviously some concern about the vaccine, since it's getting some press.

I don't think I could convince you there was a problem with this vaccine if the girl grew genital warts all over her body within seconds after receiving the vaccine.

 

Offline Bored chemist

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #8 on: 26/10/2008 10:37:53 »
It seems like a coincidence to me because it's pretty close to the symptoms I had when I gave a blood sample for the Anthony Nolan Trust. That's a fine, clean needle taking a trivial amount of blood so there's litte physiological effect. The fact was that it was too early in the morning and my blood pressure dropped through the floor. I was fine 10 mins later. Plenty of pepole experience this when giving blood- the girl was unluky that it progressed to a grand mal fit.

"I don't think I could convince you there was a problem with this vaccine if the girl grew genital warts all over her body within seconds after receiving the vaccine."
That would be an interesting trick, do you know why these warts are called genital?
Anyway, a dozen cases with a dozen different symptoms looks like a coincidnce. If they all had the same symptoms you would get more of my attention.
Anyway, that's not really the issue.
All vaccines will have adverse effects in some individuals. (Just the same as any drug).
The point is that this small number of people is outweighed by the benefit to the great majority (and society at large).
If there were enough harm attributable to this vaccine to outweigh the benfits then it wouldn't be given. I do't know where you are in the world, but where I am this vaccine is paid for by the same government that would pick up the bill for treating the side effects.
If it were not worth it they wouldn't pay.
 

Offline blaze

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #9 on: 26/10/2008 21:13:46 »
A drop in blood pressure and a grand mal seizure are on opposite sides of the spectrum. I was about to explain 'why', but gosh, that would be like trying to describe night and day to someone who was born blind.

I live in the U.S., and I don't buy your theory that if this vaccine was a concern, they would tell us.

If only a small percentage suffer serious side effects from getting this vaccine, I hope you realize that those who don't experience any side effects will be paying for those who do, not the government - by way of taxes and increased insurance premiums. The cost is not coming out of the government's pockets.

What's more, the more money these companies make on the vaccine, the richer the government becomes. That alone would constitute drive to continue inspite of adverse side effects in some.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #10 on: 27/10/2008 19:26:35 »
"live in the U.S., and I don't buy your theory that if this vaccine was a concern, they would tell us. " OK, but I live in the UK and people are the same and I think ythe vaccine is the same so as long as my government is prepared to pay for it the argument still holds.

"The cost is not coming out of the government's pockets."
The government doesn't have any money- it uses ours. However if it wants to get reelected it has to act as if it is using "it's own" money wisely, rather than squandering ours.

"What's more, the more money these companies make on the vaccine, the richer the government becomes. "
The govt doesn't make money by taxing companies that the government pays for.
 

Offline BenV

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
« Reply #11 on: 27/10/2008 20:50:42 »
Okay, I don't think this thread has any further to run.  Joe, I hope your answer is in here, and that you don't get distracted by the politics.  I think Rosy's answer covered it quite well.
 

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Why is the HPV vaccine being given only to women?
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