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Author Topic: What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?  (Read 27200 times)

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« on: 05/11/2008 21:10:42 »
Hamilton is being hailed as the first black F1 champion, Obama as the first black US president. But hang on - in both cases their mother is white. That makes them only half black. Why, then, are they classed as black not white? After all they're 50/50.

I've seen white guys with tans who are darker-skinned than Hamilton. Mick Jaggers lips are just as big. So what is it?


 

Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #1 on: 05/11/2008 22:11:03 »
The official terminology is mixed heritage. Both Barry and Lewis should be asked what they see themselves as before labels are applied. There is a new film openning soon called Skin (I think.) It is about a black girl who has two white parents. They are living in South Africa during appartied. The white parents obviously see her as white but the Africa government see her as black. She has to go to a government office where they do tests on her such as, seeing if a pencil will stay in her curly hair, to see if she is black or white. I think it will show just how stupid labelling people is in the first place.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #2 on: 05/11/2008 22:21:36 »
The official terminology is mixed heritage. Both Barry and Lewis should be asked what they see themselves as before labels are applied. There is a new film openning soon called Skin (I think.) It is about a black girl who has two white parents. They are living in South Africa during appartied. The white parents obviously see her as white but the Africa government see her as black. She has to go to a government office where they do tests on her such as, seeing if a pencil will stay in her curly hair, to see if she is black or white. I think it will show just how stupid labelling people is in the first place.

I'm sure I've read the book
 

Offline RD

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #3 on: 05/11/2008 23:24:15 »
Q. What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
A. Somewhere between "Cinnamon" and "Copper teak" on the Dulux colour chart.
http://greatpaintingtips.com/ici-colour-card-2007-available-online/2007/03/30/
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #4 on: 06/11/2008 02:18:49 »
Q. What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
A. Somewhere between "Cinnamon" and "Copper teak" on the Dulux colour chart.
http://greatpaintingtips.com/ici-colour-card-2007-available-online/2007/03/30/

 

Offline Don_1

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #5 on: 06/11/2008 11:23:35 »
Quite right, neither Hamilton nor Obama are black or white. But I can go with the cinnamon description. I’m rather partial to cinnamon. I do like a nice Hot Cross Bun with loads of real butter. Unhealthy? Who cares?

Headline......

Obama, first cinnamon US President.

But why must the media continue to point out their skin colour? They have told us (not that 99.9% of us needed to be told, since we can see for ourselves), there is no need to keep on about it.

On a BBC Radio 4 programme a few days ago, the matter of ‘mention of race’ was discussed. A British psychologist with an English sounding name on his way from London to a meeting had his secretary give a description of him to the man who would be picking him up from the airport arrival lobby. They missed each other. The secretary had not pointed out that her boss was Asian, because she did not think it relevant. Under such circumstances, as the psychologist pointed out, it is!

There is nothing wrong with saying ‘black is black and white is white’. There is nothing racist about it. But once the fact has been established, there is no need for constant repetition. Or if it is patently obvious, why mention it at all.

I think this is all down to the racial PC brigade and their ‘positive discrimination’. While I admit that in some circumstances it may be preferable, on the whole I do not like it. I think it hands ammunition to the racist bigots.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #6 on: 06/11/2008 13:38:06 »
Don - I quite agree. When I was lecturing I was once berated when talking to a colleague about 1 of the students in my class. So that he knew who in particular I was referring to, I said "The lesbian with red hair". Apparently that is discriminatory.

How can it be? She is a lesbian and, at the time, had red hair.
« Last Edit: 06/11/2008 13:39:39 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #7 on: 06/11/2008 13:48:15 »
I'm somewhat surprised that no-one has called me racist yet for this thread. Maybe the idiots are hibernating.
 

Offline Don_1

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #8 on: 06/11/2008 14:12:23 »
Seems reasonable to me Doc. This programme discussed the reluctance of people to mention colour for fear of being branded racist.
Worth listening to on the BBC iplayer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00f75dg/All_in_the_Mind_04112008/
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #9 on: 06/11/2008 14:28:44 »
It's all down to some people wanting to impress others with how PC they are. "I'm more righteous that you so ner"
 

blakestyger

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #10 on: 06/11/2008 17:32:06 »
That's right, call a spade a spade - although they prefer to be called negroes.
 

Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #11 on: 06/11/2008 18:04:07 »
The last statement was the only racist thing on this thread. I assume it was in jest, like the Spanyards blacking up at their Grand Prix!!!!!!!!!

People don't mention colour or race because they are afraid of making a mistake and either insulting someone or seeming ignorant. Being politically correct is OK as long as people are educated to use it properly. Ignorance is the enemy in all this. Not talking about or learning about race and colour and what people are comfortable and uncomfortable about reinforces ignorance. Beaver this thread is very relevant. You should never be afraid to ask or you will stay ignorant forever.
I employ a diversity lecturer who is mixed heritage African/British. A teacher asked him "Why is Nigger so offensive to black people?"
The lecturer replied "Because it usually comes with the word Die or kill the f****** in front of it."
The history of this language is what makes it politically incorrect.   
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #12 on: 06/11/2008 18:09:14 »
But black people, especially the young, call each other nigger. Just listen to rap songs.
 

Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #13 on: 06/11/2008 18:14:29 »
They are trying to reclaim the word but it isn't working because only best black friends can use it with each other. You try going up to a young black man and try calling him nigger. I think you will find that hospital food has improved under a labour government!
Again it is finding out what people are comfortable with. For young black men, using nigger with each other is the usual teenage rebellion against their parents values. It is like my boys calling everything slightly rubbish, gay.
 

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #14 on: 06/11/2008 18:27:43 »
But that illustrates my point about PC. How can it be OK for person A to use a particular word but not person B? That is saying that the word itself is not inherently offensive, but that it can be offensive or not depending on who uses it. Isn't that showing up the very differences that PC is supposed to play down?
« Last Edit: 06/11/2008 18:30:47 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #15 on: 06/11/2008 18:32:51 »
As I said before it is all about dialogue and finding out what people are comfortable with. If you don't have the conversation you will be hedging around the topic all the time. To begin with using the PC rules is just being polite. It gives you the basic rules. When I lived in Japan all foreigners were taught ultra polite English because then you would not make mistakes and offend people. Japanese is a very honorific language and can be a nightmare. Once you understand the honorifics then you can explore the language more.
« Last Edit: 06/11/2008 18:35:17 by Make it Lady »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #16 on: 06/11/2008 18:34:33 »
Well I think it's a load of bollox
 

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #17 on: 06/11/2008 18:36:16 »
Very mature response. I know what JimBob means now!
 

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #18 on: 06/11/2008 18:37:20 »
I came to that conclusion after much considered thought.
 

Offline RD

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #19 on: 06/11/2008 18:46:27 »
If you go back far enough it appears that we are all "of African decent"...

Quote
According to the Out of Africa Model, developed by Chris Stringer and Peter Andrews, modern H. sapiens evolved in Africa 200,000 years ago. Homo sapiens began migrating from Africa between 70,000 – 50,000 years ago and would eventually replace existing hominid species in Europe and Asia. The Out of Africa Model has gained support by recent research using mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). After analysing genealogy trees constructed using 133 types of mtDNA, they concluded that all were descended from a woman from Africa, dubbed Mitochondrial Eve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_man#Out_of_Africa_model
 

blakestyger

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #20 on: 06/11/2008 19:54:40 »
The last statement was the only racist thing on this thread. I assume it was in jest,   

Yes, the spade reference was made in jest (frankly, I'm amazed that anybody could remember it as it's quite outmoded) - it was intended more as a reference to an older usage within the context of the thread.
I wouldn't have thought any thinking person would regard a pun like that as racist, especially within the context of a humorous thread such as this one - this is usually the default setting of the hastily reactive.
Cross-cultural jokes are acceptable to the extent that my financial adviser, who is Jewish, often finishes our telephone conversations by him telling me a Jewish joke - in the same way that Lionel Blue used to tell one on the Today programme.
True racism is that which is expressed through actions rather than words; for instance, it would be offensive racism to get up and move to another seat on a bus if a black person sat next to you - but not a word would have been spoken.
Where racism really falls on its face is because it criticises/vilifies someone for something they can do nothing about - their facticity.
There is no freedom greater than that which allows us to criticise and/or satirise any belief or activity that is the result of choice - that of course includes religion, dress sense etc, but excludes colour, ethnic origin and disabilities.

PC is much valued by those unable to think for themselves, those practitioners who, in the proper order of things, should be out there digging ditches and coppicing smallwood. They are all mangers now, often in minor government departments, free to dispense their battiness to the rest of us - a pox upon them all.
« Last Edit: 06/11/2008 19:57:36 by blakestyger »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #21 on: 06/11/2008 20:00:21 »
Well said, sir.
 

Offline Make it Lady

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #22 on: 06/11/2008 21:29:47 »
So would you count monkey chanting at football matches and blacking up for Lewis Hamilton racist or not?
 

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #23 on: 06/11/2008 21:38:28 »
Of course I would as it's degrading and insulting. But that is a totally different thing to calling someone a nigger. Black people use that word among themselves but I don't recall ever a black man monkey chanting at another black man
 

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
« Reply #24 on: 06/11/2008 21:41:08 »
So you would call a black man a nigger then?
 

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What colour are Lewis Hamilton & Barak Obama?
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