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Author Topic: Canola Oil? No thank you.  (Read 178128 times)

Offline miriam0920

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Canola Oil? No thank you.
« Reply #50 on: 13/12/2008 21:40:58 »
Bored Chemist, hello my fried, my problem is that knowing three languages, grammar rules get in the way.  Sorry to say, but it's the truth.  What is your excuse?
 

Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #51 on: 13/12/2008 21:49:39 »
Doctor Beaver you look healthy, ha, ha, ha, keep using it!

I guess I am weird because I don't eat in fast-food (McDonald, Burger King, Wendy's).  I eat only home made as much as possible.  I don't eat fried food.
My only hope is that people loved themselves better and eat healthier foods. I wish to erradicate diseases, Cancer, hyper tension, strokes, etc. That's my only goal in alerting people to use the right products.  I am sorry if I sin in this.  I want to make people aware that companies sometimes promote products bad to human consumption just to profit their pockets, not thinking about people's health.  So, please stop using Canola Oil, just in case.
 

Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #52 on: 13/12/2008 21:57:56 »
This is a more resent article capture by Google.com:

Canola is not the name of a natural plant but a made-up word, from the words "Canada" and "oil". Canola is a genetically engineered plant developed in Canada from the Rapeseed Plant, which is part of the mustard family of plants. According to AgriAlternatives, The Online Innovation, and Technology Magazine for Farmers, "By nature, these rapeseed oils, which have long been used to produce oils for industrial purposes, are... toxic to humans and other animals".

Rapeseed oil is poisonous to living things and is an excellent insect repellent. I have been using it (in very diluted form, as per instructions) to kill the aphids on my roses for the last two years. It works very well; it suffocates them. Ask for it at your nursery. Rape is an oil that is used as a lubricant, fuel, soap and synthetic rubber base and as a illuminate for color pages in magazines. It is an industrial oil.

It is not a food.

Rape oil is strongly related to symptoms of emphysema, respiratory distress, anemia, constipation, irritability, and blindness in animals and humans. Rape oil was widely used in animal feeds in England and Europe between 1986 and 1991, when it was discontinued.

 

Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #53 on: 13/12/2008 22:02:40 »
Here is some more posting please read previous posts.


According to John Thomas' book, Young Again, 12 years ago in England and Europe, rape seed was fed to cows, pigs and sheep who later went blind and began attacking people. There were no further attacks after the rape seed was eliminated from their diet.

Source: David Dancu, N.D.

Apparently peanut oil is being replaced with rape oil. You'll find it in an alarming number of processed foods. I read where  rape oil was the source of the chemical warfare agent mustard gas, which was banned after blistering the lungs and skins of hundred of thousands of soldiers and civilians during W.W.I. Recent French reports indicate that it was again in use during the Gulf War.

Check products for ingredients. If the label says, "may contain the following" and lists canola oil, you know it contains canola oil because it is the cheapest oil and the Canadian government subsidizes it to industries involved in food processing.

Adrenoleukodystrophy (ALD) is a rare fatal degenerative disease caused by in a build up long-chain fatty acids (c22 to c28) which destroys the  myelin (protective sheath) of the nerves. Canola oil is a very long chain fatty acid oil (c22). Those who will defend canola oil say that the Chinese and Indians have used it for centuries with no effect, however it was in an unrefined form.*

(* taken from FATS THAT HEAL AND FATS THAT KILL by Udo Erasmus.)


I read about a man who  bred birds, always checking labels to insure there was no rape seed in their food. He said, "The birds will eat it, but they do not live very long." A friend, who worked for only 9 mo. as a quality control taster at an apple-chip factory where Canola oil was used exclusively for frying, developed numerous health problems.

Rape seed oil used for stir-frying in China found to emit cancer-causing chemicals. (Rapeseed oil smoke causes lung cancer.) Amal Kumar Maj. The Wall Street Journal, June 7, 1995 pB6(W) pB6 (E) col 1(11 col in). Compiled by Darleen Bradley.

 

Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #54 on: 14/12/2008 00:13:49 »

To test the industrial penetrating strength of canola oil, soak a towel in both canola oil and regular vegetable oil. Pre-treat and wash the towel in your clothes washer and compare the area the two oils occupied...you will notice an oil stain remains on the area soaked in canola oil. It is so durable, it could take several washings to completely remove. Now if this is how canola oil penetrates the fabric of a towel, what damage can it do in your body?

Because canola oil is so cheap, it is now widely used in the food industry. If you are curious, just read a few food labels the next time you are in the grocery store. A good example can be found with commercially prepared peanut butter. In order to give peanut butter it's spreadability, Jiffy, Peter Pan and Skippy brands remove ALL of the natural peanut oil and replace it with canola oil. Natural peanut butter should only have peanuts and salt listed in the ingredients.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #55 on: 14/12/2008 10:13:41 »
Bored Chemist, hello my fried, my problem is that knowing three languages, grammar rules get in the way.  Sorry to say, but it's the truth.  What is your excuse?
Probably much the same as your excuse for not accepting the rule that bans multiple posting.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #56 on: 14/12/2008 10:20:11 »
Doctor Beaver you look healthy, ha, ha, ha, keep using it!

I guess I am weird because I don't eat in fast-food (McDonald, Burger King, Wendy's).  I eat only home made as much as possible.  I don't eat fried food.
My only hope is that people loved themselves better and eat healthier foods. I wish to erradicate diseases, Cancer, hyper tension, strokes, etc. That's my only goal in alerting people to use the right products.  I am sorry if I sin in this.  I want to make people aware that companies sometimes promote products bad to human consumption just to profit their pockets, not thinking about people's health.  So, please stop using Canola Oil, just in case.

If avoiding fast food joints is weird then that makes two of us weird.
The diseases you mentions are a terrible drain on society; eliminating them would be a great boon.
Distracting attention from the real problems by banging on about the toxicity of wild type rapeseed oil and then applying that to theh (as you have pointed out) genetically modified to be different canola, doesn't help.
Drop this argument- it's pointless, and divert your efforts to the real problems.
The trans fatty acids and high fructose corn syrup would be much better targets.

The bit about "stop using canola just in case" is a problem. It is, as you are so happy to point out, cheap.
Since it is not actually harmful, using it just means that those on low incomes have more cash left at the end of the week. If they spend that on fresh fruit then they are likely to benefit much more than they would from switching to whatever the next cheapest oil is.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #57 on: 14/12/2008 10:22:51 »
This is a more resent article capture by Google.com:

Canola is not the name of a natural plant but a made-up word, from the words "Canada" and "oil". Canola is a genetically engineered plant developed in Canada from the Rapeseed Plant, which is part of the mustard family of plants. According to AgriAlternatives, The Online Innovation, and Technology Magazine for Farmers, "By nature, these rapeseed oils, which have long been used to produce oils for industrial purposes, are... toxic to humans and other animals".

Rapeseed oil is poisonous to living things and is an excellent insect repellent. I have been using it (in very diluted form, as per instructions) to kill the aphids on my roses for the last two years. It works very well; it suffocates them. Ask for it at your nursery. Rape is an oil that is used as a lubricant, fuel, soap and synthetic rubber base and as a illuminate for color pages in magazines. It is an industrial oil.

It is not a food.

Rape oil is strongly related to symptoms of emphysema, respiratory distress, anemia, constipation, irritability, and blindness in animals and humans. Rape oil was widely used in animal feeds in England and Europe between 1986 and 1991, when it was discontinued.



Do you understand that the reason they genetically modified the stuff was to make it different?

Since it is no longer rapeseed oil (in the traditiional sense) the comparison is meaningles.

It doesn't matter how toxic wild rapeseed oil is, because canola is something else.
I know- I have seen the analysis.
 

blakestyger

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Canola Oil? No thank you.
« Reply #58 on: 14/12/2008 10:36:24 »
Now if this is how canola oil penetrates the fabric of a towel, what damage can it do in your body?

This is the old observation that tea made the insides of metal teapots brown - what was it doing to our stomachs?

Well the answer is simple - we are lined neither with stainless steel nor towelling. This argument is therefore meaningless and has no place in scientific discourse.

Your wishing to target disease resulting from lifestyle choices is worthy - I believe that the removal from school curricula of domestic science is partly to blame.
There is a paradox though that is hard to explain - the rise in obesity and related conditions comes at a time when never before have we had so many TV programmes about food and cooking. Also, the local supermarket I use has loads of vegetables and frequently go short on some lines, notably greens - it just doesn't add up. ???
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #59 on: 14/12/2008 10:39:24 »
Here is some more posting please read previous posts.


According to John Thomas' book, Young Again, 12 years ago in England and Europe, rape seed was fed to cows, pigs and sheep who later went blind and began attacking people. There were no further attacks after the rape seed was eliminated from their diet.

Source: David Dancu, N.D.

Apparently peanut oil is being replaced with rape oil. You'll find it in an alarming number of processed foods. I read where  rape oil was the source of the chemical warfare agent mustard gas, which was banned after blistering the lungs and skins of hundred of thousands of soldiers and civilians during W.W.I. Recent French reports indicate that it was again in use during the Gulf War.

Check products for ingredients. If the label says, "may contain the following" and lists canola oil, you know it contains canola oil because it is the cheapest oil and the Canadian government subsidizes it to industries involved in food processing.

Adrenoleukodystrophy (ALD) is a rare fatal degenerative disease caused by in a build up long-chain fatty acids (c22 to c28) which destroys the  myelin (protective sheath) of the nerves. Canola oil is a very long chain fatty acid oil (c22). Those who will defend canola oil say that the Chinese and Indians have used it for centuries with no effect, however it was in an unrefined form.*

(* taken from FATS THAT HEAL AND FATS THAT KILL by Udo Erasmus.)


I read about a man who  bred birds, always checking labels to insure there was no rape seed in their food. He said, "The birds will eat it, but they do not live very long." A friend, who worked for only 9 mo. as a quality control taster at an apple-chip factory where Canola oil was used exclusively for frying, developed numerous health problems.

Rape seed oil used for stir-frying in China found to emit cancer-causing chemicals. (Rapeseed oil smoke causes lung cancer.) Amal Kumar Maj. The Wall Street Journal, June 7, 1995 pB6(W) pB6 (E) col 1(11 col in). Compiled by Darleen Bradley.




A whole bunch of anecdotes.
The story about feeding rapeseed oil to sheep is a red herring. The two oils are not the same that's the whole point of the genetic modification of the plant.

The repetition of the claim about mustard gas means that you didn't read or didn't understand what I wrote before. Where does the organochlorine come from?
Mustard gas is made by the reaction of ethylene with sulphur chloride in the presence of a lewis acid catalyst.
It's entirely synthetic. The only link is that someone thought it smells a bit like mustard and that's how it got the name.

The Chinese and Indians have used the stuff for a long time. The stuff they use is unrefined.
So what?
The refining process doesn't produce the long chain acids. They are exactly the same in the refined and unrefined product.

This is a point in favour of the safety of canola; we know things like it have been used safely for years.

The stories that start "i heard of someone" can be written off as hearssay at best.
The person who became ill after working with the stuff proves nothing. What about all the other people working there? If this stuff was toxic it would harm all of them not just one.

"Rape seed oil used for stir-frying in China found to emit cancer-causing chemicals. (Rapeseed oil smoke causes lung cancer.) Amal Kumar Maj. The Wall Street Journal, June 7, 1995 pB6(W) pB6 (E) col 1(11 col in). Compiled by Darleen Bradley. "

All smoke contains cancer causing chemicals. This has nothing to do with canola. Didn't you realise that?

I don't have any canola oil so I can't do the experiment you ask about. But I can explain it. We already know that this stuff has a higher proportion of long chain fatty acids.
Perhaps you could repeat the experiment with a nut oil like nutmeg oil. It too should be more difficult to wash out. Suet should be difficult to remove as well.
I will have a look at the labels on things I buy when I'm out shopping today.


 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #60 on: 14/12/2008 14:45:23 »
Quote
Perhaps you could repeat the experiment with a nut oil like nutmeg oil. It too should be more difficult to wash out

Have you tried washing out turmeric?

Turmeric may slow Alzheimer's disease
Turmeric may combat diabetes
Turmeric may prevent bowel cancer
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #61 on: 14/12/2008 16:10:44 »
As Blakestyger already pointed out, the "it's difficult to wash out" is a complete red herring anyway.
I usually treat curry stains with borax before washing them; it seems to help.
Of course, since borax is toxic I should presumably (according to the sort of logic shown  before) avoid all foreign food.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #62 on: 14/12/2008 16:49:35 »
I know it was a red herring. I was adding to the shoal  ;D

By the way, do you extract the Borax from your cocaine stash?  :P
« Last Edit: 14/12/2008 16:53:53 by DoctorBeaver »
 

blakestyger

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« Reply #63 on: 14/12/2008 17:11:07 »
...I should presumably (according to the sort of logic shown  before) avoid all foreign food.

Is foreign food toxic? [:0]
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #64 on: 14/12/2008 20:08:33 »
It must be, some of it difficult to wash out of clothes. Not only that but the people who made mustard gas wore clothes too!
 

Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #65 on: 14/12/2008 23:21:07 »
I will have a look at the labels on things I buy when I'm out shopping today.



[/quote]

At least you are more conscious of what you are digesting and feeding your system.
 

Offline miriam0920

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« Reply #66 on: 14/12/2008 23:24:55 »
BC, so when I talked about trans-fat you didn't make any comments.  As a good "scientist" in this post, you should have promoted the good argument (accordingly to you) and ignore the wrong arguments.  Unfortunately, you didn't.  You stir the stinky one over and time again.
Peace out.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #67 on: 15/12/2008 06:56:49 »
Why say things like that which simply are not true?
Here's some of what I said about trans fats..
What is this ""Mostly all the cooking oil are partially hydrogenated soy. "
Well, if that's true then since, as you say, hydrogenated oils are often high in trans fatty acids (which seems not to be a good thing) it would be better to use some other oil
Canola oil would fit the bill. It's used as-is rather than hydrogenated.

" Why you do think companies are now proclaiming "NO TRANS-FAT" in their commercial labels? "
Because there is evidence that trans fats are a bad thing.
So what?
Canola oil isn't a good sourse of trans fats.
"Because people are investigating, they know that trans-fat is a man-made fat that the body doesn't know how to dissolved."
Well, it's more complex than that but it's fair to say that trans fats are a by product of fat processing and there's evidence they are bad for you.


WTF does this have to do with canola? Wild type rapeseed oil has a relatively high trans fatty acid content. But Canola has been bred specifically not to. Did you read the wiki article? It explains the name "The word "canola" was derived from "Canadian oil, low acid""

"If you want to read about warning google it.  Go to "google.com" and write Canola Oil.  Read for yourself.  "

I did. That's how I found the wiki article I cited earlier. That wiki article in turn features a report saying canola is full of trans fatty acids.  The organisation that produced the report also says  (on their website)  that "It contains "the infamous chemical warfare agent mustard gas" which simply isn't true.
Now I obviously can't vouch for all the world's oil, but I have seen analyses of biodiesel made from rapeseed oil that had very low levels of erucic acid (the alledged source of the problems). So, even industrial oil hasn't got the stuff in it. Why would it be in the food chain?
« Last Edit: 15/12/2008 06:58:22 by Bored chemist »
 

lyner

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« Reply #68 on: 15/12/2008 09:10:42 »
BC
The newspaper headline "Everything OK today" is just not an attention grabber, I'm afraid.
Sexy News with an ill informed basis is much more successful.
This is another Moon Landing  thread. You won't win, despite the sense of your arguments.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #69 on: 15/12/2008 19:03:19 »
I might not win, but at least I'm entitled to ask why someone says things that are so obviously false.
Miriam,
what on earth did you think that your last post would achieve?
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #70 on: 16/12/2008 15:14:57 »
Quote
This is another Moon Landing  thread. You won't win, despite the sense of your arguments.

Keep at it though BC, your unwavering determination in fighting all that is irrational is both inspiring and amusing. Kudos!
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #71 on: 16/12/2008 19:04:44 »
You stir the stinky one over and time again.

 ???
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #72 on: 16/12/2008 20:56:25 »
I think I was being accused of S**tstiring, which I think is ironic.
 

Offline Total-Amateur

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« Reply #73 on: 06/10/2009 06:53:19 »
Hi, this topic was so interesting, it inspired me to register, so that I could have my two cents worth :) I just want to point out a few things:

There were points on both sides of this argument that I found to have some validity. I was really torn on what to believe.

On the one hand, BC has a point -- anecdotes aren't proof of anything. Wikis aren't reliable sources of information. For that matter, neither is Google. Google doesn't test the validity of any claim, or the reliability of websites that it indexes. All Google does is say "here's what I found on the subject." Google assigns the same relevance to a website written by a 5th grader for a science project on potatoes as it does to a website written by a PhD doing a proper scientific study on potatoes. Both sites = potatoes, so Google spits them both out as relevant search results.

By the way, even though most Wikipedia entries provide links to relevant websites, very little of those links are actually "sources." By that, I mean peer-reviewed. So citing them doesn't increase the validity of one's claim.

HOWEVER, BC says something that makes me want to side with Miriam's point of view, insofar as not wanting to use canola oil. He says that raw rapeseed is the toxic stuff, and that canola oil is refined and genetically modified to remove the toxins. That's a red flag for me.

Every time I've heard of genetically modified anything, it always follows the same formula: At first, it's a miracle product, then some scientists do some studies on it, and later, it's proven to be bad for you in one way or another. I remember back in the early 80's when everyone was so hip on NutraSweet. And we all know how that turned out.

Now I'd like to make a small caveat here; I'm not a scientist. (Hence, the username.) In fact, I hold an MA in English, and I am currently in an MLIS program (Master of Library and Information Science.) I am in no way, shape, or form a chemist, nor do I fancy myself as one.

However, I do know how to think critically, and how to give weight to arguments, and to make an informed decision.

And the conclusion I have come to is this: Since it is a genetically modified product, I am going to avoid it, until I see a properly documented, peer-reviewed study on its long-term effects that says different.

I came to this website because I recieved the chain email that was mentioned earlier in this post. (The one that Snopes says is false.) I was looking for any sort of information for either side of the argument, so that I could research this for myself. I figured that this forum might be a good starting point, a catalyst to point me in a productive direction. But it's beginning to look as though the research won't be necessary. Everyone seems to agree that canola oil is a GMO. So for me, case closed, at least for the time being.

Having said this, I would like to point out that I am extremely skeptical about the scrapies (or whatever it's called) assertion and the link to the canola oil in the feed; there are many more factors that need to be considered. Simply feeding an animal the wrong food can throw their systems out of whack. That's why non-free range cows get sick, because they're being fed corn, instead of being allowed to graze. (Not to mention being injected with synthetic hormones!) A cow living on corn is akin to a human being living on potato chips or jelly beans. So the scrapies thing could be the result of any number of bad farming practices.

I am also skeptical of any article which cites personal anecdotes. "My Paw said that he once tried this so and so and it made him sick." Lawyers have a term for that: heresay.

But the GMO thing sealed it for me. There is too much evidence out there that modifying food on the genetic level is (at the very least) unpredictable, not to mention dangerous.

Anyone have any thoughts on this? Feel free to reply. I apologize for resurrecting such an old thread, but I think that it's an issue which needs to be further addressed.
 

Offline Madidus_Scientia

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« Reply #74 on: 06/10/2009 09:20:05 »
Quote
Every time I've heard of genetically modified anything, it always follows the same formula: At first, it's a miracle product, then some scientists do some studies on it, and later, it's proven to be bad for you in one way or another. I remember back in the early 80's when everyone was so hip on NutraSweet. And we all know how that turned out.

Can you list some examples?
Isn't nutrasweet just aspartame? So.. it turned out great? What are you talking about?
« Last Edit: 10/10/2009 17:55:01 by Madidus_Scientia »
 

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