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Offline noden1

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god and science
« on: 19/05/2003 23:39:26 »
can a belief system in a christian god be reconciled with science.in other words is it possible to be a scientist and a christian.


 

Offline Exodus

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Re: god and science
« Reply #1 on: 19/05/2003 23:51:26 »
Hello noden, welcome to the forum! That is a very good question and one that always has me thinking...

To be honest. i find that question really difficult to answer, from various narrative scientific books i have read, it seems that scientists of the past tried to base their theories upon religious foundations, today i think it may be considerably different, scientists are considering a wider picture when not attempting to explain things within the confines of the bible. HOWEVER there are so many things within science that CANNOT be explained (such as the origin of life) that i believe there is plenty of scope for religion and science to live side by side... this is just my view, i know for a fact that this is going to stir up some interesting views from various people so keep coming back and watch it unfurl....

Richard.

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« Last Edit: 20/05/2003 00:01:43 by Exodus »
 

Offline cuso4

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Re: god and science
« Reply #2 on: 20/05/2003 08:02:26 »
A lot of famous scientists were also religious. I think one of the examples was Issac Newton.

Angel
 

Offline chris

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Re: god and science
« Reply #3 on: 20/05/2003 20:04:49 »
mmm but I think the 'incentive', if that's the right word to use, of not being burned at the stake was sufficient to convince most medieval and renaissance scientists as to the existence of God !

The same threat motivated Copernicus to published his life's work on his death bed, but for Gallileo it was too late....[V]

Chris
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: god and science
« Reply #4 on: 20/05/2003 21:25:08 »
quote:
Originally posted by chris

mmm but I think the 'incentive', if that's the right word to use, of not being burned at the stake was sufficient to convince most medieval and renaissance scientists as to the existence of God !

The same threat motivated Copernicus to published his life's work on his death bed, but for Gallileo it was too late....[V]

Chris



Perhaps the right word would be "incinerative".

I believe in God, if that's the name you choose to give Universal Intelligence.  I also believe in science.

The Bible has been "translated" so many times, the original message has probably lost its purity.  I think that things were not meant to be taken so literally to begin with; look at our communication amongst ourselves, it certainly is not literal.  Add to this the contextual changes translating from language to language.  It does say in the Bible that we are made in the image of God, so it makes sense that we would feel comfortable when we are on the right track and dis-eased when we treat ourselves or others incorrectly.  Just pay attention to your body.  It always tells the truth.
 

Offline PG

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Re: god and science
« Reply #5 on: 23/05/2003 20:54:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by noden1

can a belief system in a christian god be reconciled with science.in other words is it possible to be a scientist and a christian.



My view is that science will explain everything, tomorrow. Religion is what people use when then need something explained today. Imagine that you are dying of cancer. I fully belive that science will find a cure, but it won't be until well after you are dead. "Faith in science" doesn't amount to much in such a situation. I fully believe that science will explain everything. Too bad it will take until infinity to do it. Most of life is actually about dealing with situations for which you have incomplete information. Unfortunatly, that is not just a minor detail, but a fundamental problem of life.

Another point is that Christianity is very practical. Try forgiving someone. You feel better. It is the most utilitarian, practical advice anyone can give you.

If you want to get very serious about life, visit a childrens' hospital. Half of your feelings will be to dedicate your life to finding cures for the various conditions. The cure will all be too late for the kids there right now, though. Your other feelings are to right here and now give simple human care and comfort to the kids who will never get a cure. Yes, it is possible to be Christian and a scientist.

To end on a lighter note. What, as a scientist, is the alternative? To passionatly believe, based on no proof, that Science will answer all questions and solve all problems? I thought blind uncritical faith in dogma was the problem with religion. I once saw a sticker posted on a wall saying "Question Authority!". Below that someone had written "why?" (Like Byron, I cried because I hadn't written it) Below that the person who put the sticker up whined on and on about politics, entirely missing the irony. Question ALL authority, and only belive in what works. Forgiveness and public sanitation are the two big things that work.
« Last Edit: 23/05/2003 21:11:39 by PG »
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: god and science
« Reply #6 on: 24/05/2003 03:41:49 »
PG, you are a deep thinker and appear to have considerable life experience.  Welcome.
 

Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: god and science
« Reply #7 on: 12/06/2003 21:43:03 »
I'm shiny new here and should have chosen a cleaner topic to play with, but here goes.

  Very well put, PG. To my knowledge, no one has ever "married" the two topics. It seems that they are both staunchly defended by their supporters and the concept of science with Christianity is out of the question. The minds are closed and the walls are up.
   Groing up as a Christian and later running the gambit of religions, I've since chosen to just be spiritual. Christ like. My belief is that God is science and science is God. As a baker doesn't just "poof" a cake, God doesn't just "poof" existence. I feel that God created evolution. A process for creation. God is the greatest scientist of all time. He wrapped his brain around a concept and got to work on it. A little trial and error and let the process take action. As everything around us is a process, so is the process of all of it evolving from God and his master plan. God, the chemist, artist, scientist, poet and author of us.
   So, in my humble opinion, YES, you can be a scientist as well as a spiritual person. Just heed the best advice I've heard in a long time...to quote Donnah, "Listen to your body, it always tells the truth."
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: god and science
« Reply #8 on: 13/06/2003 17:51:06 »
Welcome Ian's Daddy.  Funny how your identity changes when you have a child!
 

Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: god and science
« Reply #9 on: 16/06/2003 01:19:47 »
Donnah,
  Thanks for the welcome and the site. I love coming here as much as possible. It's quite educational, as well as, addictive.

  Yes, our identities do change. Almost disappears as a person and reappears as a parent.
  My oldest, Ian, is 5 and has been going to museum school here at the Fort Worth Museum of Science and History. He's really got a grasp on this science thing and blows me away with some of his little "findings". He tells me he's going to be a scientist when he grows up because he already is one. He also makes plenty of messes of my kitchen with his "machemicals" I can't wait to turn him loose on this web site. Y'all will be teaching him so much and spurring questions in his little mind that we can look into together. We just have to keep his little brother from tearing up all the projects.

Ronnie
 

Offline n/a

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Re: god and science
« Reply #10 on: 17/06/2003 15:03:29 »
I don't think it is really possible to really believe in God as a scientist. The two do not agree in my opinion. Evolution just completely disagrees with anything science and scientists believe in.
 

Offline Ians Daddy

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Re: god and science
« Reply #11 on: 17/06/2003 15:33:31 »
Maybe not God from sunday school, but rather a God as we, as individuals, understand God. A higher power, or as Donnah put it, a "Universal Inteligence". The difference between me and God is that he never thinks he is me.

I think society, over the ages, has caused God and science to disagree. Man's fragile ego to not accept a genetic link to the ape. I see evolution, God and science as one. Every science experiment / dicovery "evolved" from a thought and a process. Everything around us, from creation to cream pie is evolution.

I can tell you that I, for years, was agnostic to a certain degree. However, because it's my nature to test everything, I found something bigger than me in all my afairs when I was willing to see it. We as scienctific people most always stick to, "I'll believe it when I see it." Sometimes it's just the oposite...."I'll see it when I believe it" works better for me. Just a thought.

Welcome, asdasd!
 

Offline jdelgado

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Re: god and science
« Reply #12 on: 17/06/2003 15:55:03 »
I work with a few scientists who go to church on a regular basis, so I'd say anything is possible.
 

Offline dalya

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Re: god and science
« Reply #13 on: 30/06/2003 09:19:16 »
Well in the same vein as PG:

In a way, does it really matter?  My understanding of what Christianity is idealistically (at least the original New Testament sort of Christianity) supposed to be is as a guide towards being a good ethical kind and loving human being with the christian community there to support you in those endeavors. Does explanations about origins or function of life change that?  It may influence how you feel about technology true and what is ethical and what is not, but at the end I think the same thing emerges whether you are religious or not -this world is a wondrous place and all elements of its creation -environment, animals, humans, whatever -deserve respect.  If you want to say that it came from god or that it came from energy -perhaps god is energy? - that really shouldn't change the way we act in this world.  Science and religion is only mutually incompatible if you want it to be.
 

Offline bezoar

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Re: god and science
« Reply #14 on: 16/07/2003 07:29:11 »
Donnah,

Actually, when parts of the Dead Sea Scrolls were translated, and compared to our current Bible passages, it was found that very little was lost in the multiple translations.  That alone is amazing to me.

Bezoar
 

Offline McGee

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Re: god and science
« Reply #15 on: 17/07/2003 14:15:54 »
First off, I am a christian, believing in God and Jesus Christ as our risen savior.

How very true that science has only gotten truly started in the last 400-500 years.  I teach a lesson on Copernicus, Giordani Bruno, Galileo and Isaac Newton each year.  We discuss their contributions and their impact on the Church of England and the Roman Catholic church at the time.  I correlate it with the social studies lessons on inventors.  Imagine Thomas Edison inventing the light bulb during the day of Galileo.  (Theoretical, of course.)  He'd been burned for 'creating light'.

I think a basic fundamental of being a christian is accepting things on faith, no explanation.  Imagine trying to explain a computer and the internet to someone who lived 75 years ago.  I believe that when I get to heaven, the things I could not understand will be explained.  Until then, I get along the best I can.  I try to refrain from teaching things that hold little scientific value, but are based on loosely formed theories.  Macroevolution, carbon dating, etc.  Fortunately, I teach 8th grade and my students are really only beginning to grasp concepts in an attempt to apply them.

There are many scientists at work to explain our world within the pages of the Bible. I do not believe that the translations have been misconstrued to the point of no longer presenting what the original writer had intended.  That said, I think the Bible is more intended for instruction, rather than explanation.  Some of the views of these scientists are interesting and they make a good case.  Others have clearly had no formal training and are able to deceive those who haven't either.

It has also been a challenge to rely on my faith first, rather than science.  Don't try to explain God.  He tells us if we truly had faith, inasmuch in a mustard seed, we could move mountains.  It's an incredibly huge concept to explain to people who aren't believers.  

McGee

Teachers don't make a lot of money, but they make a lot of difference.
 

Offline cobra427

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Re: god and science
« Reply #16 on: 08/08/2003 15:17:31 »
quote:
058) impedance of vacuum = 3.767303134… x 10^2 kg-m^2/A^2-s^3-sr


just got my Dyson out and put my volt meter between the live and neutral and i get about 300ohms...
 

Igor Clark

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Re: god and science
« Reply #17 on: 08/08/2003 15:20:22 »
Yeah but it doesn't lose suction does it
 

Offline Feline1

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Re: god and science
« Reply #18 on: 08/08/2003 15:58:05 »
>>If you want to get very serious about life, visit a childrens' hospital. Half of your feelings will be to dedicate your life to finding cures for the various conditions. The cure will all be too late for the kids there right now, though. Your other feelings are to right here and now give simple human care and comfort to the kids who will never get a cure. Yes, it is possible to be Christian and a scientist.

Yes, but here's me: Wha?

Ewe don't have to be a Christian to be a nice person. There are nice people who aren't Christians. Being a Christian doesn't nessacelery make ewe a nice person. The nicest nice person may be nicer than the nicest Christian person. :p

That's y'all folks... :-O
 

Offline D@vé

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Re: god and science
« Reply #19 on: 08/08/2003 16:07:29 »
Sorry....  i don't believe in God...  Its all complete codswallop.  If you wanna believe in some ethereal higher being then yeah ...whatever... its your life.  Calling yourself a christian isnt going to make any difference though...

In the words of Feline...  Yes, but here's me: Wha?

« Last Edit: 08/08/2003 16:08:29 by D@vé »
 

Offline rahonavis

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Re: god and science
« Reply #20 on: 06/03/2006 13:55:43 »
Hi all,

I don't think there is any doubt that a person can be both a Christian and a scientist, as many Christian scientists do exist. Whether or not they are correct in believing science and Christianity to be reconcilable is another matter.

I personally don't believe that they are; I think the Christian scientist has to make too many concessions in his / her beliefs due to the contradictions of science in the Bible.

I've never liked to just believe in something because I want it to be true. And the fact is, there is no more evidence for God as our creator than there is in a giant flying blancmange having spewed forth the Universe. [:0]

 

Offline Solvay_1927

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Re: god and science
« Reply #21 on: 06/03/2006 23:41:32 »
In reply to the original question ... yes, I don't see why not.

Rev. John Polkinghorne is a good example of a "top scientist" who is also a devout Christian.
(The main reference page for him is:  http://www.starcourse.org/jcp )

One interesting site I found recently which is fairly relevant to this thread is:
http://www.counterbalance.net/cqinterv/intro-frame.html

I think it's very good - lots of video feeds of very famous scientists, etc.  I recommend you to try out some of the links (video feeds and discussion scripts) on the right hand side of the page.

P.S. In case you're wondering ... no, I'm not a christian, I'm an agnostic.  I'd like to be an atheist, but I just don't have enough faith to be one.  (I'm too prepared to suspend judgement / keep an open mind to come down on either side of the fence.)

P.P.S.  Does anyone have any clue as to what Socratus is on about? (Or as to what he's ON? I gotta try some of it, whatever it is.)
 

Offline neilep

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Re: god and science
« Reply #22 on: 06/03/2006 23:46:56 »
What happens if a christian scientist discovers there's no God ?
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: god and science
« Reply #23 on: 06/03/2006 23:55:14 »
quote:
What happens if a christian scientist discovers there's no God ?


a good christian scientist will take the only path open to him, the road to the fame and fortune.

Michael
 

Offline tweener

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Re: god and science
« Reply #24 on: 07/03/2006 03:50:05 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep

What happens if a christian scientist discovers there's no God ?



Good question Neil!

It cannot happen!  There is no way to prove the absence of anything.

----
John - The Eternal Pessimist.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: god and science
« Reply #24 on: 07/03/2006 03:50:05 »

 

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