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Author Topic: What is holding back electric car technology?  (Read 144321 times)

Offline Nizzle

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #100 on: 25/08/2009 06:12:47 »
Time = money indeed.

So if such electrical car would have a bicycle-like (but better of course) dynamo on it's wheels, the extra resistance/friction of this dynamo would make the car consume more 'extra' electricity than it generates from the dynamo?
 

Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #101 on: 25/08/2009 07:14:47 »
What is holding back electric cars?

Either the lack of a battery with sufficient energy density, or the very long power cable that's plugged into the wall  :D

Sorry if this is a repeat, but the lead engineer on the Chevy Volt pointed out that the battery, which takes up a lot of space and weighs a substatial amount, is only equivalent to one gallon (US) of gasoline. In other words, a fully charged battery will take you as far as you can go on one gallon of gas. I think they claim about 40 miles.

 

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #102 on: 25/08/2009 11:54:48 »
Time = money indeed.

So if such electrical car would have a bicycle-like (but better of course) dynamo on it's wheels, the extra resistance/friction of this dynamo would make the car consume more 'extra' electricity than it generates from the dynamo?
Yes; that's correct. The resistance and friction - plus the charge / discharge losses would all use energy from what was originally stored in the battery.
Perpetual motion and totally free energy are nice ideas but not possible.
 

Offline Nizzle

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #103 on: 25/08/2009 12:31:53 »
Perpetual motion and totally free energy are nice ideas but not possible.

Indeed, it would be impossible to create energy from nothing, but maybe on earth we can take advantage of some omnipresent phenomenon to create a kind of perpetual motion using for example sunrays, the earth's magnetic field, geothermal energy, ...
 

Offline peppercorn

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #104 on: 25/08/2009 14:05:25 »
Look, forget battery-electric cars.  Fuel cell cars are the only non-hybrid solution that is workable in the development (of technology & infrastructure) time-frame humanity has.

- If you can call millions of individual steel boxes a solution...
 

Offline Nizzle

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #105 on: 25/08/2009 14:15:25 »
Instant transportation/teleportation solves all.

 

lyner

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #106 on: 26/08/2009 16:59:15 »
Perpetual motion and totally free energy are nice ideas but not possible.

Indeed, it would be impossible to create energy from nothing, but maybe on earth we can take advantage of some omnipresent phenomenon to create a kind of perpetual motion using for example sunrays, the earth's magnetic field, geothermal energy, ...
This is what we do already - in purely practical terms, (nearly) everything comes from the Sun, one way or another. But that's not the definition of perpetual motion. Perpetual motion would happen with a machine in a totally sealed box which kept going for ever without any energy 'going in'. Most of the scams, of course, not only claim to have achieved that but they also claim that their invention actually produces energy which could be used.

Long lasting sources of energy are just that - they aren't 'perpetual' so even the Sun is not strictly perpetual. Near as dammit, I admit.
 

Offline Pumblechook

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #107 on: 26/08/2009 18:47:04 »
There is somebody on Dragon's Den tonight with an 'electric car' invention of some sort.

BBC2 at 2100 Wed, 26 Aug.
 

Offline Pumblechook

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« Last Edit: 26/08/2009 18:51:49 by Pumblechook »
 

Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #109 on: 26/08/2009 18:54:30 »
I think I've identified the problem!




 

Offline Pumblechook

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #110 on: 26/08/2009 21:39:50 »
They ripped him apart on Dragon's Den...
 

Offline Turveyd

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #111 on: 27/08/2009 12:22:33 »
New battery Tech out in a few years,  promising 10x's the energy density and fast recharge times,  like 5mins to a 80% charge,  making refueling at a petrol station actually possible.

The Volt claims 10p electricity to do 40miles,  better than £4 so thinking all in taking into account petrol transport costs,  making it, bla bla bla bla bla your still using less energy over all with a electric car.

The chemicals required to make these batterys are expensive and wasteful though.

Might be better off,  driving a electric motor at home to pressurise a air canister,  which would also open up petrol stations being able to re pressurise your tank in a reasonible period of time.

 

Offline Turveyd

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #112 on: 27/08/2009 12:25:18 »
Teleportation would be great,  off to visit a mate 5000 miles away,  back in 10mins,  Zap!!!

On holiday,  get a call out zap to the client fix the issue and zap back to 5000miles away / the moon :)

 

lyner

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #113 on: 27/08/2009 14:08:17 »
Quote
New battery Tech out in a few years,  promising 10x's the energy density and fast recharge times,  like 5mins to a 80% charge,
I have been reading such 'real soon' claims for as long as I can remember. Yes, things are getting better all the time but in painfully slow steps.
Let's believe it when an electric car takes you at the traffic lights and then beats you to London and back.
 

Offline peppercorn

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #114 on: 27/08/2009 16:04:30 »
Might be better off,  driving a electric motor at home to pressurise a air canister,  which would also open up petrol stations being able to re pressurise your tank in a reasonible period of time.

Unfortunately, as I'm learning, compressed air is not even as energy dense (at sensible pressures) as current battery technologies.  Also, as has been posted here getting the power into the car's storage system (elec, air, etc) is a major headache.  Nothing really comes close to, at least having the option of some form of chemical energy store 'on-board' - petrol offers this, hydrogen fuel-cells offer this, hybrids offer this. Pure electricity or air does not.

Just one thought: could my household natural gas supply (running an engine in the garage) offer a faster  charge-rate than the electric option?
Would certainly sit well with a combined heat & power system for the house, plus CO2 emissions should undercut the national grid.
 

Offline Don_1

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #115 on: 27/08/2009 16:20:45 »
Maybe we should forget electric cars and go REALLY green..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwig1tgUtY
 

lyner

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #116 on: 27/08/2009 18:57:24 »
We're going in a circle here. If you compress air then, to avoid losing a lot of the energy that you put into it, you have to allow its temperature to rise and to keep it insulated. As it cools, you lose a chunk of the energy you supplied - bad for efficiency.
 


Offline coquina.rocks

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #118 on: 28/08/2009 00:31:57 »
For those of you who haven't checked the geology forum - I'll do a little intro before I barge in...
I'm a female baby-boomer from southeast VA who's always been a science junkie. I ran a machine shop for 30 years so am not entirely obtuse about technical concepts.
I have not waded through all your posts, but scanned some of them and noticed someone had mentioned a battery swap station.

I agree that it is the concept which makes the most sense, if you're dealing with batteries, but the change would have to be quick and easy. I have been mulling this over for sometime.  In the first place, the battery size would have to be universal, as would the retainer, so all the car companies would have to agree. The delivery/acceptance mechanism would have to be adjustable within a reasonable perameter.

So - here's my idea - would would be particularly efficient in areas with lots of space and sunshine.

The battery is cylindrical in shape and is located in the trunk (boot) area - placed horizontally across the car with an entrance on one side of the car and an exit on the other. The delivery/acceptance mechanism contains new batteries on one side and used one on the other. It looks kinda like this: Π only fatter and it rotates from the top.

The car drives into the bay, the mechanism rotates down so that it lines up with the battery retainer on the car.  As a fresh battery is delivered into the car, the used one is pushed into the acceptance hole, the mechanism pivots back up, another new battery is loaded, and the used one rolls down a chute for recharge.

But - as other's have said, the recharge is the kicker. 

As I was listening to an ad for rail transportation, I took note of the fact that a train can deliver freight at an economy of over 400 miles per gallon - so, if the battery stations are close to rail service they can be moved there by container, and if the rail line is close to a source of natural energy, perhaps this could be made not only "green" but economically feasable as well.

If you're located in New Mexico or Arizona, it is a short hop to an open desert, where the batteries can be recharged by solar energy - if you live in London, this form of recharge won't work, but maybe you can hook them up to a wind farm, or a tide generator. Obviously, the source of energy can't be but so far from the point of use.  However, presuming there is an adequate supply of batteries, charging time is not critical, although the longer the charging time, the larger capital outlay the companies that run the facility will have to make.

Anyway - that's my rough idea, what do you think?
 

Offline Pumblechook

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #119 on: 28/08/2009 14:25:15 »


Unless batteries can be made to store much more energy per kg then electric vehicles will never catch on unless they are a last resort..no petrol left in the World. 

A ten fold improvement would be the minimum. 

 

lyner

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #120 on: 28/08/2009 17:03:59 »
coquina.rocks
The quick-change (slide across) replacement is a good idea but why do they need to be cylindrical? Cuboids are  the most efficient use of space in, essentially, box-shaped vehicles and could just as easily be slid in and out.
 

Offline coquina.rocks

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #121 on: 28/08/2009 23:38:27 »
coquina.rocks
The quick-change (slide across) replacement is a good idea but why do they need to be cylindrical? Cuboids are  the most efficient use of space in, essentially, box-shaped vehicles and could just as easily be slid in and out.
It's because of "fits", because of the differences in distance from road to ground, as well as fore and aft location, as the vehicle drove into the bay, a cylinder that was a little convex on the end would "self-center" into a hole.  You would want the receptacle and the battery to be a snug fit, or it would rattle around too much. In the case of a cube or rectangle, it would take much longer to get the battery "square" with the receptacle. Suppose a tire was a little low?  The bottom of the battery receptacle wouldn't be parallel to the ground, and the delivery mechanism would have to have several more areas of adjustment to get it to line up properly. The more complicated a mechanism is, the more it costs to build and to operate.
 

lyner

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #122 on: 28/08/2009 23:49:26 »
Ah - I see what you mean now.
 

Offline neilep

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #123 on: 30/08/2009 11:06:35 »
I think I've identified the problem!














Hmmm..not so sure this is a problem...all ewe need is a reel that holds a few 100 miles of cable and you're all sorted !

I for one think this is the answer.... ;)
 

Offline Karen W.

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #124 on: 30/08/2009 12:41:03 »
Teleportation would be great,  off to visit a mate 5000 miles away,  back in 10mins,  Zap!!!

On holiday,  get a call out zap to the client fix the issue and zap back to 5000miles away / the moon :)



Yes it would be great....That means I could have company! YAYYYYYYYYYY!
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #124 on: 30/08/2009 12:41:03 »

 

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