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Author Topic: What is holding back electric car technology?  (Read 144318 times)

Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #150 on: 13/12/2010 03:30:42 »
So 1,200 MPH would be FAST!!!!!

As Einstein said, "It's all about your relatives."

Compared to C, it's a snail's pace.
 

Offline maffsolo

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #151 on: 13/12/2010 10:12:49 »
Maffsolo, check your math. 60 miles per hour is 1 mile per minute. I use this fact to check my speedometer against mile markers. Steve

I am off a factor of 10 thanks sorry
 

Offline teragram

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #152 on: 19/12/2010 18:19:46 »
Amazing to find that this topic has re-appeared after two years. I would just like to point out that the much mailigned Tesla is still popular (amongst people who are two rich to count themselves in my group od friends). From what I see on the web it seems to live up to it's range claims. Also quite a few manufacturers are on the point of launching production quantities of battery powered cars. On the whole, very encouraging.
 

Offline peppercorn

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #153 on: 19/12/2010 19:29:43 »
Amazing to find that this topic has re-appeared after two years. I would just like to point out that the much mailigned Tesla is still popular (amongst people who are two rich to count themselves in my group od friends). From what I see on the web it seems to live up to it's range claims. Also quite a few manufacturers are on the point of launching production quantities of battery powered cars. On the whole, very encouraging.

Thanks to mobile phones and laptop batteries :D
 

Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #154 on: 20/12/2010 02:29:05 »
Amazing to find that this topic has re-appeared after two years. I would just like to point out that the much mailigned Tesla is still popular (amongst people who are two rich to count themselves in my group od friends). From what I see on the web it seems to live up to it's range claims. Also quite a few manufacturers are on the point of launching production quantities of battery powered cars. On the whole, very encouraging.

Thanks to mobile phones and laptop batteries :D

I suspect some of the initial enthusiasm will dissipate when one of them goes into thermal runaway and goes up in smoke.
 

Offline peppercorn

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #155 on: 20/12/2010 10:22:56 »
I suspect some of the initial enthusiasm will dissipate when one of them goes into thermal runaway and goes up in smoke.

Unlike petrol that is barely flammable...
 

Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #156 on: 20/12/2010 19:30:33 »
I suspect some of the initial enthusiasm will dissipate when one of them goes into thermal runaway and goes up in smoke.

Unlike petrol that is barely flammable...

No, it actually burns rather well, but it's not prone to spontaneous combustion when used properly.
« Last Edit: 20/12/2010 19:44:48 by Geezer »
 

Offline SeanB

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #157 on: 20/12/2010 19:53:25 »
Speak to owners who have had ford products that did the same self immolation act, as one did that I saw go from expletive to inferno in under 30 seconds.......
 

Offline teragram

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #158 on: 20/12/2010 20:18:52 »
I suspect some of the initial enthusiasm will dissipate when one of them goes into thermal runaway and goes up in smoke.

Like I.C. engines do when they run out of water/oil?
 

Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #159 on: 20/12/2010 21:01:16 »
Speak to owners who have had ford products that did the same self immolation act, as one did that I saw go from expletive to inferno in under 30 seconds.......

Yes, but you can't blame that on a defect in the manufacture of the gasoline.

I'm only pointing out that there are certain known issues with lithium-ion batteries. The effects can be bad enough when there are only a few of them in a laptop computer, but when you pack a large number of them together, if anything goes wrong, the results can be rather nasty. No doubt it will all get sorted out in time, but I'm suspect we'll learn some interesting things along the way.

BTW, you do know about the UPS plane that was destroyed when some lithium-ion batteries it was carrying went bonkers. Presumably they were not being charged or discharged at the time either, although I'm not sure about that.
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #160 on: 20/12/2010 21:02:52 »
I suspect some of the initial enthusiasm will dissipate when one of them goes into thermal runaway and goes up in smoke.

Like I.C. engines do when they run out of water/oil?


Oh, I think the results will be a lot more spectacular than that  :)
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #161 on: 20/12/2010 21:30:52 »
I found some anecdotal evidence that 15 out of 75 million ipods had overheating problems with their batteries. I don't know if any of them actually went on fire, but elevated temperatures can trigger thermal runaway with this technology.

If we extrapolate that figure (I know it's a bit naughty to do that, but that's what we anecdotal physicists do) to electric vehicles, the odds don't look so hot (er, maybe I should rephrase that) because electric cars are going to have hundreds of cells, not just one, so the car guys have to be looking for much smaller FIT (failures in time) rates than that.
 

Offline peppercorn

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #162 on: 21/12/2010 01:59:54 »
I don't know if any of them actually went on fire, but elevated temperatures can trigger thermal runaway with this technology.

Well, the solution is staring us in the face - in case of thermal runaway, just use the batteries to power their own air-conditioning unit ;D
 

Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #163 on: 21/12/2010 05:46:20 »
This just in. A review of the Chevy Volt. (I don't think I'll be rushing out tomorrow to order one.)

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1633/hyped-hybrid-the-chevy-volt-gets-average-mileage-for-a-hybrid/
 

Offline CliffordK

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #164 on: 21/12/2010 11:51:08 »
Quote
Once the battery is depleted and the car is essentially using only gasoline as its fuel, we averaged 30 mpg overall

A 33 mile range would be sufficient so that most of my driving would be 100% electric.  But, one would sure take a hit on "road-trips".

That is a huge dependency on electricity rates...  in California, it almost looks like about an equivalent of $2.38 / gallon of electricity.  Here it is probably half that, and more practical.

I'm looking at the Toyota Reviews:
http://www.plugincars.com/toyota-prius-plugin-hybrid/review

Not a lot of details.
But, listed at only about 12˝ Miles "Plug-In".  Or, about half a commute for me.  But, much better MPG in gas mode.

If they pushed it to 100 miles electric mode...  I'd be down to about a tank of gas a year.


 

Offline peppercorn

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #165 on: 21/12/2010 12:56:53 »
The Volt is a Series-hybrid if I'm not mistaken.
Personally, the only time cars should be configured series-hybrids rather than parallel is, if the Range-extender is able to be 'lifted-out' and the car is able to run as straight-electric - without having to lug an 80Kg+ around all the time.

No mainstream manufacturer is ever likely to off this though!
« Last Edit: 21/12/2010 12:58:44 by peppercorn »
 

Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #166 on: 21/12/2010 16:57:33 »
As the article points out, the Volt does not really work on purely economic grounds, but people will probably buy them for other reasons. (I couldn't even make to town and back on a single charge.)
 

Offline techmind

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #167 on: 21/12/2010 21:32:54 »
Another thought: if everyone swapped their cars to electric overnight, they'd need to approximately double the amount of electricity generated/distributed each day.
 

Offline DaS Energy

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #168 on: 22/12/2010 07:16:00 »
The greatest problem we see with electric vehicles is how they obtain their electricity.

In 2002 DaS Energy began its journey to development of new internal combustion engine resulting in it having only one moving part a recycling hydro turbine.

This development has the might of piston engine makers across the world fighting it coming on market.

So DaS Energy took the radical step of releasing all in Open technology free to copy.
« Last Edit: 22/12/2010 17:25:26 by peppercorn »
 

Offline peppercorn

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #169 on: 22/12/2010 18:17:18 »
The greatest problem we see with electric vehicles is how they obtain their electricity.

In 2002 DaS Energy began its journey to development of new internal combustion engine resulting in it having only one moving part a recycling hydro turbine.

This development has the might of piston engine makers across the world fighting it coming on market.

So DaS Energy took the radical step of releasing all in Open technology free to copy.

Tha's a stretch of a connection if ever I heard it!
I don;t feel comfortable linking to other forums but,
http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/63209

I think these guys have already given some, er opinions on ya 'idea' :-X
 

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #170 on: 22/12/2010 19:11:53 »
Shrunk
What is holding back electric car technology? The biggest problems come from those individuals who are unable to see the big picture. Petroleum is running out and because of this, and increasing demand for fossil fuels from developing nations, especially China and India, the price is going to go up radically. If we all wish to maintain the general automobile mode of transportation, another fuel must be developed.

There are several possibilities, but the most well developed and currently widely distributed alternative automotive power is electricity. So new sources of electricity will have to be developed unless someone comes up with a new, inexpensive way to make, distribute, and store hydrogen, or a new inexpensive way to make biofuels becomes available (e.g. cellulosic alcohol). It is also the case that, because of several ecological imperatives, we should also develop new sources of electricity to displace fossil fuel use.

Geezer, electricity is no more dangerous than gasoline, and both exploding Pintos and melting computer batteries are just engineering problems. Making an issue of this is a red herring. Steve
 

Offline Geezer

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #171 on: 22/12/2010 20:29:47 »
Geezer, electricity is no more dangerous than gasoline, and both exploding Pintos and melting computer batteries are just engineering problems. Making an issue of this is a red herring. Steve


Steve,

I don't think I said electricity is more dangerous than gasoline, did I? What I did point out was that one particular technology for storing electrical energy is intrinsically unstable. I have nothing against electric vehicles in principle, although I think some people have totally unrealistic expectations of the benefits they afford.

My concern about lithium-ion cells might be less of a red herring than you seem to think. Time and large numbers will tell, but even if a small number of EVs suffer catastrophic fires for no apparent reason, it could turn the public away from them in large numbers.   
 

Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #172 on: 22/12/2010 20:46:21 »
My concern about lithium-ion cells might be less of a red herring than you seem to think. Time and large numbers will tell, but even if a small number of EVs suffer catastrophic fires for no apparent reason, it could turn the public away from them in large numbers.

Much as I hate to admit it, but I sadly have to agree (Not hate to admit I agree with Geezer :D) - The general public are a short sighted and fickle bunch at the best of times, so I would not like to see them commit all BEV's to the same destiny in the future as Li-ion based ones, if they fail widely once ubiquitous.
 

Offline Geezer

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« Reply #173 on: 22/12/2010 21:13:47 »
Thanks PC (I think  ::))

BTW, why do we need all the marketeering technobabble mumblespeak about the classifications of "hybrid" vehicles.

Surely the Volt is a gasoline-electric with a battery, or should we go back and reclassify all the diesel-electric locomotives and ships that have been around for seventy plus years as something else?  ;D
 

Offline peppercorn

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« Reply #174 on: 22/12/2010 21:26:00 »
Thanks PC (I think  ::))

BTW, why do we need all the marketeering technobabble mumblespeak about the classifications of "hybrid" vehicles.

Surely the Volt is a gasoline-electric with a battery, or should we go back and reclassify all the diesel-electric locomotives and ships that have been around for seventy plus years as something else?  ;D

I'm sure marketing has played it's part in the spreading of the terminology, but (unusually for me) I do think this is a viable piece of informative 'babble' from the marketeers.

I suppose (following on from your argument) the logical explanation of hybrids should always mean parallel hybrids (even then the word could be misleading).  There is not a locomotive equivalent of this configuration - A train would never be developed in the parallel Diesel-and-Electric route (although...???).
 

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What is holding back electric car technology?
« Reply #174 on: 22/12/2010 21:26:00 »

 

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