The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Can you think without 'sounding' your thoughts 'inside' as you think?  (Read 22323 times)

Offline yor_on

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 11978
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
    • View Profile
'A' to 'B'= uphill 5 Li
'B' to 'A' = downhill 4 Li

And it made sense then, and it does today too:)
(energy spent, sort of?)

------
Yes, that's true Allen. One could say that bicycling is very connected to ones 'muscle memory' perhaps.

But driving a car?
Maybe??
----

How do one feel Fourier transfoms SC.
Is it like getting 'hunches'?

 

Offline Make it Lady

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4050
  • Hands-on fun for everyone!
    • View Profile
We may have to have a narrative to do maths but savants see maths pictorally and that's what makes them so good at it.
People do think and learn in different ways. there are 4 types of learners; visual, audio, kinetic and tactile. I'm not sure about the last one but I know it begins with a T. I'm a visual learner but also a kinetic learner to some extent. This means that I memorise things better pictorally and that movement helps me to learn.
 

lyner

  • Guest
Quote
How do one feel Fourier transfoms SC.
Is it like getting 'hunches'?
Working with modulation systems and with antenna design gives you a sort of second-nature feeling about 'narrow giving wide and wide giving narrow' but it comes out as a sort of pictorial thing without needing the numbers, initially.

There's a similar thing with music. You / I use a sort of private internal language about chord sequences. Is it an interface between conscious and subconscious processes?
 

Offline yor_on

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 11978
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
    • View Profile
Is that true about all 'savants' Lady?
And if that is correct, then that would make you SC into a 'visual' thinker?
It seems that we all have a tactile memory.
I guess that this is similar to what I call a 'muscle memory'.

For example if you used to train hard but then stops for a year or two, it is said that you will find it easier to 'come back' into shape, than when you once started.

And I can vote for that:)

---

That is, if I ever get up from my couch.
« Last Edit: 24/01/2009 00:54:26 by yor_on »
 

Offline Chemistry4me

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7709
    • View Profile
For example if you used to train hard but then stops for a year or two, it is said that you will find it easier than to 'come back' into shape than when you once started.

And I can vote for that:)
Me too, first hand experience!
 

Offline Chemistry4me

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7709
    • View Profile
I've heard of savants who could glance at a plate with scores of similar objects,
(e.g. M&Ms), and instantly be able to tell exactly how many there were.

 

Offline yor_on

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 11978
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
    • View Profile
Visual memory Chem?
Could that be some kind of 'prerequisite' for mathematics?
 

Offline Chemistry4me

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7709
    • View Profile
Perhaps more for actually learning to do (some)things.
 

Offline yor_on

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 11978
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
    • View Profile
Rubiks cube then.
Would that and mathematics fit together?

I got bored after trying it for only some minutes, but a friend of mine (Kim) was very fast in solving it.
From that he went to computers, and is extremly good at programing different types of systems.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7709
    • View Profile
I remember someone telling me that Rubix cubes are more to do with physics, but there are all these steps to get this square here and then turn this and that etc... so I guess it could be to do with maths. Somehow I can never seem to get more than one side completed, but I don't know the 'formulas' so I can't complain ;) 
 

Offline Chemistry4me

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7709
    • View Profile
Getting back to the original question, do you think aloud while you are speaking your mother language? I am doing it now (thinking aloud) but that is because I am typing and I sound the letters out to myself, e.g M then Y than S etc...
 

Offline yor_on

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 11978
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
    • View Profile
Yes, it's the same, the difference being that when using English I get this feeling that not only my language, but me too (personality), sort of 'transforms':)
Strange, isn't it?

But I'm kind of, ah, nutty:)
 

lyner

  • Guest
yor-on
I may be a visual thinker but I can never, ever, reckon to learn anything until I have heard someone else actually say it. Weird.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7709
    • View Profile
I may be a visual thinker but I can never, ever, reckon to learn anything until I have heard someone else actually say it. Weird.
What do you mean? You saying that you haven't learnt anything on this forum? ???[:0]
 

Offline yor_on

  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *******
  • Posts: 11978
  • Thanked: 4 times
  • (Ah, yes:) *a table is always good to hide under*
    • View Profile
Forum?


--

Where..
Are we discussing 'times arrow'?

Again.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7709
    • View Profile
 

lyner

  • Guest
I may be a visual thinker but I can never, ever, reckon to learn anything until I have heard someone else actually say it. Weird.
What do you mean? You saying that you haven't learnt anything on this forum? ???[:0]

er um well . . .
 

Offline Chemistry4me

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7709
    • View Profile
Aha! I knew it!
 

Ethos

  • Guest
Interesting topic!

As a machinist myself, I catch myself thinking in geometric patterns quite frequently. Someone also mentioned thinking in colors which I also do very often.
As a side to this question, I have often wished I were able to get into the mind of another, to really understand their inner most images, not just the words they use to discribe those thoughts. This has lead me to understand that; The spoken word is such a poor substitute for the inner thought. But with little alternative, it's the best we have when trying to understand the thoughts of others.........Ethos
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
But I like the spoken word and inner thoughts expressed by them...
 

Offline Karen W.

  • Moderator
  • Naked Science Forum GOD!
  • *****
  • Posts: 31653
  • Thanked: 5 times
  • "come fly with me"
    • View Profile
Someone mentioned sign language and I sign some not fluently but little bits.. and when I do I think in pictures of sign recalling the sign for a certain word in picture form unless its Abc's then its repetition then the sign image in my head then to my fingers! Is that not odd or what!
 

lyner

  • Guest

 This has lead me to understand that; The spoken word is such a poor substitute for the inner thought. But with little alternative, it's the best we have when trying to understand the thoughts of others.........Ethos

I agree, to a large extent. I think it is the spoken language which has generally helped us to communicate our thought processes with others and has avoided the limitation which would be imposed if we had to figure things out all by ourselves and from scratch. When we think in words, we are using the same sort of process of expressing and understanding concepts as during a conversation with another person. It may be an inferior and simplified version of what's going on  inside but it is as much as our consciousness can cope with and paraphrase.
« Last Edit: 29/03/2009 13:20:00 by sophiecentaur »
 

Offline JimBob

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6564
  • Thanked: 7 times
  • Moderator
    • View Profile

How do one feel Fourier transfoms SC.
Is it like getting 'hunches'?


I have done this and I also think in 3D when working. First on FT's - I have a program for reprocessing seismic data that has, as one of its functions, the ability to change parameters within the FT that is being used to (hopefully) enhance the data and improve the degree of data recovery from the original data acquired in the field. I use hunches and - well, it is only describable as a "visual" - process to make these decisions. 

As for the thinking in 3D - I do it all the time when working on the geology of an area. I do not believe that a geologist can really be effective unless they can do this. Withing the last 15 years, computer programs have been developed to produce visuals in 3D of the subsurface that allow people who are unable to think in 3D to see the subsurface structures in 3D. But it really doesn't help them that much. To be effective, a geologist needs to be able to mentally compare different 3D interpretations all at once. The software has not been able to replicate this function of the mind as of now.

On the topic of mediation - all of the above tasks are meditations. My teacher, a man from India, when asked "who are the yogi's of the west?" answered "The highly successful business men." What he meant by that is that the meditation of concentration is needed to produce the success the people have reached. A scattered mind is not a successful mind. The ability to focus, bore into a single problem to its core and find solutions is as much a meditation as other techniques. There are two primary types of meditation: a.) the attempt to focus on clearing the mind and observing the totality of the universe around and within the Self, and b.) focusing on a specific thing - be it a mandala, a religious icon or a business challenge.

If you meditate regularly, as I have tried to do for nearly 33 years, the mind will eventfully catch up with the effort a person puts forth. Meditation is often compared to taming a very wild horse. I believe this is a very apt analogy. There are daily occurrences of rebellion I must quell with a gentle hand: a strong hand will not work; it will only make the horse more rebellious. Thus, if you wish to be highly successful, meditate. Your life will change.
 

Offline Aklumog

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Someone who uses signing would, presumably, think in signing!

I have taken two years of signing courses and while not deaf myself I can certainly pass along the information that I've heard regarding the subject. According to what I've heard, those who use signing as their 'true language' see their thoughts as their main recall device, depending upon images and pictures, in contrast to our tendency to recall thoughts with sounds and voices as our preferred method.

Beyond that point, however, and this is where I lose all your respect: I believe that the methods in which we think are largely derived from our intelligence. And while all intelligence is intertwined, our favored talents and skills, whether it be linguistics, mathematics, art, music, or anything else that I'm missing all contribute to how we think. According to the level of polarization towards one specific type of intelligence is where all the extreme oddities are derived from. This could be noticed in autistics as well the deaf, blind, insane, and anything and everything else that points us in one direction or the other.
« Last Edit: 31/03/2009 00:55:15 by Aklumog »
 

Offline wolfekeeper

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1092
  • Thanked: 11 times
    • View Profile
I don't have a visual thought process, so I generally 'sound things out' in my head (My Mrs pictures words in her head, meaning she's far better than me at spelling and anagrams, and wipes the floor with me in scrabble).
I think most people can, if I say the word, 'banana' conjur up a picture in their brain of a yellow curved object with that stalky bit on it... but some can't.

It's mostly just a difference, rather than being inherently good or bad. Some lightning calculators say the numbers to themselves, others picture the numbers dancing in their head, so far as I know they're pretty much as quick doing it either way; it's more of a thinking style sort of thing than a handicap either way, although people may find some tasks are more suited to their thinking style than others.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum


 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums