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Author Topic: QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?  (Read 33255 times)

Offline RD

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #25 on: 26/01/2009 05:39:26 »
many birds seem to possess such a number sense, too.
i've read that they can somehow distinguish 2 from 3.  for instance, if a nest contains 4 eggs and 1 of them could be taken safely, but when 2 are removed the bird generally deserts the nest.


a cuckoo will remove an egg from a nest before adding its egg, so presumably the host bird can notice an addition.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #26 on: 27/01/2009 01:41:20 »
I think it's a case of getting used to how crowded the area is.
I've tried this 5 times, sometimes I am a long way off but other times I am right on the dot, am I meant to be getting fluctuating results like these?
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #27 on: 27/01/2009 23:37:41 »
I would have thought your guesses would get better
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #28 on: 27/01/2009 23:51:15 »
Well...um...[:I][:I]
 

Offline SETF

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #29 on: 03/02/2009 23:30:40 »
hey guys...i listened to the podcast where i gathered our brains take apart various sections of the items in the form of shapes like triangles, and we attempt to count them from there.

What i want to know is that in the days of medieval war or even now perhaps, when the look out/ leader spies the advancing enemy from a distance, they were able to work out how many ranks, and a number estimate of how many soldiers there were...was it this same method used or were they 'smarter' and thus more quite capable of such a feat?
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #30 on: 04/02/2009 00:07:58 »
They probably would have had more time that 50ms, so they can 'count' or do some multiplication/calculations, e.g 25 x 20 etc...
 

Offline erickejah

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #31 on: 13/02/2009 02:02:59 »
~2 out of 5. [V]
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #32 on: 13/02/2009 02:25:04 »
What is 2 out of five? Did you mean the test?
 

Offline wannabe

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #33 on: 27/02/2009 12:48:54 »
Interesting discussion!
One thing not being brought to the fore is the Innate counting thing.
Counting is a learned thing! When counting is irrelevant in a "PRIMITIVE" culture, things about counting suddenly seem very different then in societies of "WEIRD" (Western Educated  Industrialized Rich Democratic.....as  termed by anthropologist Joe Henrich) people.
 To illustrate I copy below an excerpt from the 12 february 2009 Nature Journal to illustrate:

From the article:
Darwin 200: Human nature: the remix

Dan Jones

There is evidence that humans have not just one innate number system, but two. The 'analogue estimation' system evaluates quantities in an approximate manner by relating them to imprecise notions such as 'amount of stuff' or 'extent of imaginary line'. The second system is more exact, but can initially, and innately, keep track of only three or four items11.

The exact number system can handle larger numbers, but this requires cultural learning and elaboration (the analogue system seems to function in much the same way across cultures). Some societies, such as the Pirahã; of the Amazon, have little need for large exact numbers (they do not trade or keep accounts), and use only 'one', 'two' and 'many'. The Pirahã also perform poorly at lining up groups of three or more objects (nine nuts, say, with nine batteries), or estimating when the last of 15 beans has been removed from a tin. Without the cultural demand for trading in large numbers, they have neither developed the concept nor invented the words12.

Cross-cultural studies also suggest that a basic grasp of geometric concepts, such as points, lines and parallelism, is a universal component of human cognition, or at least found in disparate cultures13. A similar story holds for how people relate numbers to space, but with an interesting twist. Western adults tend to order clusters of dots (grouped in 10, 100 and 1,000), along a linear scale, so that the distance between the group of 10 and 100 is much smaller than the gap between 100 and 1,000. Western infants, by contrast, group numbers on a logarithmic scale, with the gap between 100 and 1000 the same as that between 10 and 100. Cross-cultural studies among the indigenous Amazonian Mundurucú revealed that both children and adults order numbers logarithmically. Together with the results from Western infants, this suggests that the logarithmic system could be an innate and universal aspect of mathematical thinking, one that gets tweaked in Western populations through formal education in certain mathematical tools and techniques to produce a switch to the linear system14.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #34 on: 27/02/2009 23:06:45 »
Thanks for that wannabe :)
The last paragraph was quite interesting.
 

Offline erickejah

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #35 on: 08/03/2009 22:45:27 »
yep
What is 2 out of five? Did you mean the test?
yep
 

Offline yor_on

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #36 on: 17/03/2009 00:56:13 »
I went to a kindergarden and asked the kids to count pens, I noticed that nearly every time they took three pens at once by just looking. For example, if I said that I wanted 12 pens, they'll take three, then another three, then another three etc... Obviously the number will change as we get older but I presume that for kids it will be around 3-4.

Yep, up to three seems to be normal with people that don't have mathematics. "The Hadza people, hunter-gatherers in Tanzania, for example, have words only for "one," "two," and "three"; anything more is "many." And I've heard/read that about other tribes too before. And Animals seems to be able to count too, just as amaterasu tells.
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/03.14/01-thinking.html
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #37 on: 17/03/2009 08:12:34 »
I went to a kindergarden and asked the kids to count pens, I noticed that nearly every time they took three pens at once by just looking. For example, if I said that I wanted 12 pens, they'll take three, then another three, then another three etc... Obviously the number will change as we get older but I presume that for kids it will be around 3-4.
Aye? What is this for?
 

Offline yor_on

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #38 on: 17/03/2009 10:30:20 »
Me being crosseyed?

Swear to I didn't see that.
Aliens?

Sh* I'm gonna get abduct...


---------

I'll take it away..
Now nobody will know...

Am I clever or what.
« Last Edit: 17/03/2009 11:02:32 by yor_on »
 

Offline Gregorian

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #39 on: 24/03/2009 03:57:31 »
.






Yes I cheated on this test.

loool.. I didn't see that "Yes I cheated on this test" at first ..
 

Offline gurpal

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QotW - 09.01.25 - How many objects can you instinctively count?
« Reply #40 on: 22/07/2009 15:23:23 »
get out of here
Either I'm getting in touch with my inner savant ...



or I'm getting better with practice.



I think it's a case of getting used to how crowded the area is.
 

locksleyu

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« Reply #41 on: 06/05/2015 03:11:20 »
Genius Dot Test is a simple iPad application that tests your ability to quickly estimate large numbers of objects. It uses three different skill levels (the highest goes up to 1000 objects), and tracks your progress over time.

It's on iTunes if you are interested:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/genius-dot-test/id988222365?mt=8
 

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« Reply #41 on: 06/05/2015 03:11:20 »

 

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