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Author Topic: Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?  (Read 29973 times)

Offline demadone

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #50 on: 30/01/2009 14:46:14 »
What's all this about black paper producing mass under the sun. Is that true?
Actually, anything that absorbs energy must convert the energy into mass. In fact the only way we can observe photons of energy is to convert them to mass. So I like to think of photons as potential mass.

So; yes that is true.

I agree with you about the photons perhaps being potential mass. My only worry about that is their potential of being a wave particle as well as an environment in which waves move? By that I mean they can move in a vacuum unlike sound. That tells me they may not be the very basic building blocks of mass.
 

Offline Vern

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #51 on: 30/01/2009 16:27:30 »
Did you read it somewhere? I just want to know about this concept. Or it's just your hypo?
No; this is the mainstream scientific thought. I try to make sure that all my personal speculations are clearly marked as speculation.
 

Offline Vern

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #52 on: 30/01/2009 16:30:32 »
Back at the turn of the 20th century most people thought that:
Quote
The final irreducible constituent of all physical reality is the electromagnetic field.
I suspect that is true. However, I'm not sure that is the current mainstream scientific thinking.
 

Offline demadone

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #53 on: 02/02/2009 14:31:44 »
Vern, I'm not too sure about the electromagnetic spectrum being the irreducible part of matter. If I understand you correctly, you mean to say if we continue dividing into the atom the final result will be the electromagnetic spectrum (or part of it).

Let's look at an example. Let's say a light bulb is emitting visible light. The bulb is powered by a hydro power source. Now since light is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum, then if what you say is true then a certain mass is being lost as light. But under perfect conditions, the system can run on forever. As a result light is being converted from kinetic energy of the water powering the turbine.

So since no mass loss is involved, then your conclusion should have a stronger backing.

I'll let you know my assumption after your answer.
 

Offline Vern

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #54 on: 02/02/2009 15:08:35 »
Quote from: demadone
Let's look at an example. Let's say a light bulb is emitting visible light. The bulb is powered by a hydro power source. Now since light is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum, then if what you say is true then a certain mass is being lost as light. But under perfect conditions, the system can run on forever. As a result light is being converted from kinetic energy of the water powering the turbine.
That's all true except the speculation doesn't require that a certain mass is being lost as light. Energy is added to the system in the case of the light, and that energy is radiated out as light.

The speculation simply states that the light bulb, or anything else for that matter, is reducible to pure electromagnetic energy.
 

Offline demadone

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #55 on: 02/02/2009 15:26:35 »
Quote from: demadone
Let's look at an example. Let's say a light bulb is emitting visible light. The bulb is powered by a hydro power source. Now since light is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum, then if what you say is true then a certain mass is being lost as light. But under perfect conditions, the system can run on forever. As a result light is being converted from kinetic energy of the water powering the turbine.
That's all true except the speculation doesn't require that a certain mass is being lost as light. Energy is added to the system in the case of the light, and that energy is radiated out as light.

The speculation simply states that the light bulb, or anything else for that matter, is reducible to pure electromagnetic energy.

I think electromagnetic energy is different from the electromagnetic field. That got me confused a bit. I agree with you that energy is the building blocks of particles. What type of energy I am not sure.
What happened to your photon energy theory?
 

Offline Vern

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #56 on: 02/02/2009 15:31:37 »
Quote from: demadone
What happened to your photon energy theory?
It is completely intact and a condensed version resides in the New Theories forum.

I'll link it here via an edit:)

Quote from: demadone
I think electromagnetic energy is different from the electromagnetic field. That got me confused a bit. I agree with you that energy is the building blocks of particles. What type of energy I am not sure.
What happened to your photon energy theory?
I agree with you. It is the changing amplitude of the electromagnetic field that is seen as energy and as mass. You only need to localize it to make it mass.
« Last Edit: 02/02/2009 15:35:53 by Vern »
 

Offline demadone

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #57 on: 02/02/2009 15:33:32 »
Energy is added to the system in the case of the light, and that energy is radiated out as light.

By the way I think the electromagnetic spectrum is as a result of the rotational behavior of the sub-atomic particles and depends also on the type of particles. Radio waves from electrons etc
 

Offline Vern

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #58 on: 02/02/2009 15:38:59 »
The electromagnetic spectrum is simply a range of all the frequencies. I guess I agree but the fields are radiated when the particles accelerate or decelerate or cross electromagnetic field lines.

Edit: Our last posts crossed. I was editing as you were posting :)
« Last Edit: 02/02/2009 16:25:26 by Vern »
 

Offline demadone

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #59 on: 03/02/2009 07:16:48 »
You seem to know a bit about this. It seems quite conclusive then that energy is the building blocks of sub atomic particles. I'm trying to read more about the 4 fundamental atomic forces.

I wonder if there is a 5th. One which acts at larger distances than gravity but is so strong that it can pull galaxy clusters together.

I imagine that if we were protons being held by the strong interaction force then we would know nothing about gravitational force because it is negligible in comparison. But outside the realm of the nucleus, gravity is considered very strong. What if there is a force that acts at larger distances, not emitted by gravitons. It would be what people are calling today as dark matter. And I was not surprised to hear that it is found near visible matter.
 

Offline ...lets split up...

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #60 on: 03/02/2009 08:10:42 »
I haven't read all the posts so i'm not sure if it has been brought up, but don't electrons get compacted with the nucleus of an atom under the gravity in a black hole?
I'm sure i read that somewhere.
 

Offline demadone

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #61 on: 03/02/2009 09:39:50 »
Actually that was the original conclusion I had when I was making this thread. I never read about it but it seems that the black hole may pull electrons into the nucleus.
 

Offline Vern

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #62 on: 03/02/2009 11:53:18 »
Actually that was the original conclusion I had when I was making this thread. I never read about it but it seems that the black hole may pull electrons into the nucleus.
Then there would be the assumption that the nucleus could survive the crunching of the Black Hole as an intact entity. But that rules out the singularity that is supposed to exist in Black Holes.
 

Offline ...lets split up...

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #63 on: 03/02/2009 11:57:42 »
We all know that there is a singularity in black holes, it sucks you through to the other universe that is ruled by apes.
 

Offline Vern

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #64 on: 03/02/2009 12:10:36 »
We all know that there is a singularity in black holes, it sucks you through to the other universe that is ruled by apes.
Yep; that's gotta be it :) I saw it on TV the other day.
 

Offline demadone

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #65 on: 03/02/2009 14:23:57 »
The singularity as a mass of infinite density is rather hard to believe. You see if the matter was being compressed into an infinitely small volume then all black holes would be the same size. But that is not the case. Refer: Schwarzschild radius.

Some sub-atomic particles are still alive in the black hole reversible arrow Hawkins Radiation.
 

Offline Vern

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #66 on: 03/02/2009 14:46:30 »
I think that no one can ever know what goes on inside a Black Hole. About the only thing anyone could do is come up with a self-consistent theory that doesn't violate observations. But then there is no way to determine which of any two such theories might be correct.
 

Offline demadone

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #67 on: 03/02/2009 15:15:53 »
You sound like you are giving up. But I think we will know. I would be glad to help.
 

Offline Vern

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #68 on: 03/02/2009 15:47:49 »
I gave up trying to understand the innards of Black Holes long ago :) But I like to see other peoples hypothesis about it.
 

Offline yor_on

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #69 on: 04/02/2009 18:40:55 »
You know, I think I've seen that one?
Planet of the apes?

Quite good to, realistic I thought.
But there are some calling our universe a 'White hole' isn't there.
As we live in it, sort of.

If one thinks so.
And if so there is a connection through our 'black holes'

Thinking of what you said Lsu, does it need to suck to be a black hole?

-----

Ah, sort of missed the whole last page here.
I should really try to remember to look before that 'leap'.
« Last Edit: 04/02/2009 19:07:18 by yor_on »
 

Offline Vern

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
« Reply #70 on: 05/02/2009 00:16:48 »
Quote from: yor_on
Ah, sort of missed the whole last page here.
I should really try to remember to look before that 'leap'.
That's okay; when contemplating Black Holes we're all wondering around in the dark I suspect.
 

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Can an electron collapse into the nucleus?
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