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Author Topic: Why is there a universe?  (Read 13952 times)

lyner

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #25 on: 08/02/2009 11:17:53 »
I'm not proposing it as a model for the universe. As I said. I'm explaining where the Olber paradox ceases to be a paradox. I thought my earlier post made that clear.
My arguments assume a finite or non expanding model, which we all(?) now reject.

Eddington et al knew this when they did the sums.
 

Offline Vern

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #26 on: 08/02/2009 17:45:38 »
I guess the situation we're thinking about may be too speculative to make sense of. I was thinking of an infinite spacial universe in which light behaved in accord with Halton Arp's Tired Light scheme. I'm not sure we can dismiss that idea based upon the paradox.

It is probably not important. :)
 

lyner

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #27 on: 08/02/2009 21:26:12 »
Arp post dates Olber by a very long time and he also post dates Eddington.
Olber's paradox can be resolved in very conventional terms and without going much further forward in time from Olber. The dust issue can be dealt with entirely in classical terms also. It is a red herring because, in an infinite Universe it would be just as hot as the rest of the sky and, in a finite universe (ignoring issues like c and gravity etc) it would still adopt the mean temperature of the sky.

There is no point in hopping forwards and backwards by centuries or by  models  if you don't need to. Tired photons or Hubble Red Shift are just an extra factor to the argument if we already acknowledge that the Universe is finite.

Is there still any serious idea that the Universe is infinite?
 

Offline Vern

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #28 on: 08/02/2009 22:26:53 »
I wouldn't say that too loudly :) Poor Halton Arp might take offence. Poor guy thinks he's still alive :)

I don't think we have knowledge that the universe is finite. I haven't ruled out the possibility that it is infinite.
« Last Edit: 19/02/2009 13:32:04 by Vern »
 

lyner

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #29 on: 08/02/2009 23:03:39 »
I wouldn't say that too loudly :) Poor Halton Arp might take offence. Poor guy thinks he's still alive :)

I don't think we have knowledge that the universe if finite. I haven't ruled out the possibility that it is infinite.

"Post date" doesn't imply he's dead, does it?
 

Offline Vern

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #30 on: 08/02/2009 23:08:58 »
Oops; sorry; I read that as pre-dates.  My bad. :)
 

lyner

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #31 on: 09/02/2009 16:41:44 »
tut tut! :-\
 

Offline Limejuice

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #32 on: 18/02/2009 19:49:54 »
God created matter - thats where everything started
 

Offline Vern

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #33 on: 19/02/2009 12:28:33 »
Quote from: Limejuice
God created matter - thats where everything started

What created God?
« Last Edit: 19/02/2009 12:30:18 by Vern »
 

Offline dentstudent

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #34 on: 19/02/2009 12:43:04 »
He is omnipresent, and so that doesn't need an answer. That's handy, eh?
 

Offline Vern

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #35 on: 19/02/2009 13:34:12 »
Yes; I've heard that convenient answer many times. :) My response has always been: why not simplify and just say the universe is omnipresent. Leaves out one step. But; I'm afraid we diverge from the topic and so might be justly chastised for so doing. :)
« Last Edit: 19/02/2009 13:35:47 by Vern »
 

Offline Sumbul Arshi

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #36 on: 26/02/2009 14:41:15 »
I  agree  with  vern  that  their  was  no  'Big  Bang'  and  this  Universe  always  existed.This  Universe  is  so  vast  that  we  can't  even   imagine  and  I  think  it  is  not  possible   that  only  a  'Big  Bang'  create   this  Infinite   Universe.
 

lyner

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #37 on: 26/02/2009 22:30:58 »
Yes; I've heard that convenient answer many times. :) My response has always been: why not simplify and just say the universe is omnipresent. Leaves out one step. But; I'm afraid we diverge from the topic and so might be justly chastised for so doing. :)

Hear hear.
 

Offline itisus

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #38 on: 01/03/2009 02:28:26 »
Why is there a universe?

If there was a big bang, what came before it, and before that, and so on?

Surly nothing should be, but it is, why?  

Here is the quick answer:  It depends on what is defined as "nothing."
If nothing is the absence of any possibilities, then no thing is possible. (Duh!)  BTW, a Creator is no help in this case because it would first have to be a possibility, and however much a modal logician might want to make it possibly necessary or necessarily possible, it would still have to first (and last and always) be possibly possible, which by definition of "nothing" it cannot be.

If "nothing" is actually a possibility of things, then it cannot be selecting which things are possible because that would make it "something" by any reasonable definition.  So we start with a Void in which anything is possible.  However, if it is detectable by the Void, then its negation should also appear.  That, in my opinion, is why everything is so hard to define, because it is all concealed from any potential outside observer, at least for a long time. 
 

Offline itisus

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #39 on: 01/03/2009 02:31:17 »
I wouldn't say that too loudly :) Poor Halton Arp might take offence. Poor guy thinks he's still alive :)

I don't think we have knowledge that the universe is finite. I haven't ruled out the possibility that it is infinite.
Infinity is a limit, not an actual quantity.
 

Offline Vern

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Why is there a universe?
« Reply #40 on: 06/03/2009 11:54:41 »
We have a concept that the universe consists of the empty space and all its contents. We could just as well have the concept that the universe consists of all the stuff in the empty space, and that the empty space is the natural condition of emptiness.

The empty space then does not need boundaries, and indeed, in that concept, space could not have boundaries.

 
 

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Why is there a universe?
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