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Offline LoneStar77

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ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
« Reply #75 on: 01/02/2009 15:01:21 »
I am not always such a grumpy old sod.

SophieCentaur, I wouldn't know anything about being grumpy, but don't tell my wife; she'd say I'm a liar.  ;)

I think there may be some confusion  in this paragraph between the words Scientist and Engineer. The man's son came up with an engineering solution, not a scientific truth.

No confusion, just sloppiness on my part. The story about Oppenheimer was also an engineering concern. Thanks!  [:I]

One theory put forward is that all of Plato's figures should be divided by 10 - thus making Thera a good candidate. As Plato was writing about events that occured many centuries previous (and which had been recounted only orally) the possibility of exaggeration in the continual re-telling of the myth cannot be discounted.

You see, I like to work with facts or, at least, theories with a high degree of scientific validity. I have seen neither in any of Mr Margiani's post so far.

I agree on both counts.

About Atlantis, not only the factor of ten for size, but also for years (900 instead of 9000). I seem to remember another researcher pointing out that the word for "larger than" is very similar to "midway between" in Greek -- making Plato's Timaeus read "midway between" Libya (Africa) and Asia (Asia Minor), which would likewise place Atlantis in the vicinity of Thera.

That's a pretty clever piece of work, but for me it falls a bit short. If Plato had not mentioned southwestern Spain as being near Atlantis, Thera would likely have won the argument (whether or not it was indeed the real Atlantis [as always, if Atlantis really ever existed]). The reference to Gadira or Gadirus is pretty damning to the Thera angle, despite its cleverness. How much of Plato do we throw out and how much do we keep? That's a tough question, but the puzzle is not going to die easily.

When I first read Timaeus and Critias, I was turned off by the idea of a "mud filled ocean." That seemed pretty unreal. But then I got to thinking about what would result if a Texas-sized plot of land were to subside within hours, perhaps in fits and starts. At least one and perhaps several mega-tsunamis might have occurred ... any one of which might have been a kilometer or more high at landfall. Imagine the amount of topsoil stirred up by such an event. Mud filled ocean? Maybe not the thick, mucky kind I'm used to calling "mud," but perhaps watered down muddy ocean liquid.

Three events from science coincide with Plato's approximate date (~600 BCE for Solon + 9000 years = 9600 BCE). That's not saying much, but the types of events raised goosebumps on me.

The abrupt end to the Younger Dryas is not clearly understood, yet. Scientists have a pretty good idea what might have caused its equally abrupt start -- a freshwater glacial spill from the North American ice cap. This put a stopper in the Atlantic's thermohaline cycle -- Earth's temperature regulator. Earth was in another mini-Ice Age for 1300 years. Imagine one or more mega-tsunamis stirring up the water in the North Atlantic, perhaps breaking through the thermohaline cap. So, Atlantis is a possible explanation for the end to the Younger Dryas. And, again, the years are a veritable match -- 9620 BCE (plus or minus some error factor -- I think around 50 years or so).

Maybe we don't need the plus or minus. In the Greenland ice cores (GISP2) is a moderately large volcanic trace at about 9620 BCE (11,569.77 BP). Of course, that could have been a volcano any place on planet Earth, unless there was some kind of chemical signature that can be traced to a specific region. Still, the possibility exists that Plato's infamous lost island empire could be the culprit.  After all, the dates match, and such an event would seem to be consistent with a large-scale tectonic event such as a Texas-sized collapse.

Coinciding with these two events (and Plato's putative disaster) is a 2-meter drop in sea level worldwide (Nature, 7 Dec. 1989). Doesn't sound like much, but I did a little calculation based on surface area of oceans and major seas, and the possible sub-surface volume of Atlantis (using a body slightly larger than Texas). The result of such a subsidence would be about 2 meters in sea level drop worldwide. Very interesting, if I do say so myself.

So, my friends. We have proof, not of Atlantis, but that something very, very BIG happened the same year Atlantis was supposed to have gone under. Three points of evidence from different disciplines. I elaborate a bit more on these three data points in the background article for my most recent novel project, newbielink:http://www.ancientsuns.com/fwd/eor/yd.html [nonactive].

Comments?  Criticisms?

And hey! I need some feedback on this stuff because I'm writing a book. Sometimes I'm full of it and need a reality check. So, have at it.

LoneStar77
(Carl Martin)
newbielink:http://www.MissionAtlantis.com [nonactive]

 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
« Reply #76 on: 01/02/2009 15:13:35 »
Carl - you raise some interesting points. Unfortunately I know nothing about geology.

I shall digest the rest of what you wrote and regurgitate my musings on it later  :D
 

Offline K.Margiani

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« Reply #77 on: 01/02/2009 15:43:49 »
I could not be ever decoded Atlantis without knowledge of Geology. That was natural geological catastrophe and could be explained by geological laws only!
Iím going to write plausible book about the sunken kingdom!
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #78 on: 01/02/2009 17:53:49 »
1. I only said my university is good as well!


Really? Let me remind you what you said earlier

Quote
Yes… this is impossible to study in the Oxford and Cambridge. Only my University has enough level to explain that!

« Last Edit: 01/02/2009 17:55:22 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #79 on: 01/02/2009 19:12:07 »

I’m going to write plausible book about the sunken kingdom!
I suspect that many of us will not think it's plausible.
 

Offline LeeE

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« Reply #80 on: 01/02/2009 19:26:41 »
Wow! four pages and this thread is still going - lol.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #81 on: 01/02/2009 20:26:04 »
Wow! four pages and this thread is still going - lol.


If I were to address every fallacy that Mr Margiani has posted it would now be on page 8!
 

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ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
« Reply #82 on: 01/02/2009 21:16:36 »
Do you think we'd get four pages out of Freddy Mercury ate my hamster?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #83 on: 01/02/2009 21:51:18 »
Shouldn't that be Freddy Star, or are you just banking on the fact that dead people can't sue for libel?
Freddy is (or at least claimed at the time to be) vegetarian.
It's not important; all the evidence says it's nonsense and there's practically nobody would ever have believed it.

The trouble is I'm not sure which story I'm describing; Atlantis or the Hamster.
 

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« Reply #84 on: 01/02/2009 23:44:40 »
LOL
Never was good at names.
But either Freddy would serve.
 

Offline K.Margiani

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The Atlantis City is DISCOVERED!
« Reply #85 on: 09/02/2009 12:58:20 »
The Atlantis City is DISCOVERED!
The Azores Triple Junction is a geologic triple junction where the boundaries of three tectonic plates intersect: the North American Plate, the Eurasian Plate and the African Plate. This triple junction is located along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge amidst the Azores islands, nearly due west of the Straits of Gibraltar. It is classed as a R-R-R triple junction, "T" type (for its shape), as it is an intersection of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge running north-south and the Terceira Rift which runs east-southeast.
The Azores-Gibraltar Transform Fault, also called the Azores-Gibraltar fault zone (AGFZ), is a major geologic fault which runs eastward from the eastern end of the Terceira Rift in the Azores, extending through the Strait of Gibraltar and into the Mediterranean Sea. It forms part of the tectonic boundary between the Eurasian Plate and the African Plate. The extension east of the Strait of Gibraltar is poorly understood and is currently regarded as a "diffuse" boundary. Somewhere in the vicinity of the Italian Peninsula, many geologists believe the fault connects with a subduction zone where the African Plate is slowly subducting beneath the Eurasian Plate.


The approximately coordinates of the central temple: Latitude: 37 N, Longitude: 24 W.
« Last Edit: 09/02/2009 13:03:27 by K.Margiani »
 

paul.fr

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The Atlantis City is DISCOVERED!
« Reply #86 on: 09/02/2009 13:52:18 »
Is it possible to zoom in further, so we can see the cities?
 

Offline K.Margiani

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The Atlantis City is DISCOVERED!
« Reply #87 on: 09/02/2009 14:13:50 »
Is it possible to zoom in further, so we can see the cities?
Through the Google; Latitude: 37:19 N, Longitude: 24:58 W.
If serious, there is treasure of the mankind!

I'm looking for that all my life!
 

Offline dentstudent

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The Atlantis City is DISCOVERED!
« Reply #88 on: 09/02/2009 14:17:48 »
I'm looking for that all my life!

What a  waste!
 

Offline K.Margiani

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Photonic Gravity - Deleted by BenV at 2009-02-09 18:12:27
« Reply #89 on: 09/02/2009 14:24:02 »
Hello Vern!
I discovered the Atlantis City! Sorry Vern only the graveyard! 3/4 of the Golden City is covered by thickest magma layers.
Through the Google; Latitude: 37:19 N, Longitude: 24:58 W.
If serious, there is covered treasure of the mankind!

I'm looking for that all my life!

« Last Edit: 09/02/2009 14:34:02 by K.Margiani »
 

paul.fr

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« Reply #90 on: 09/02/2009 14:56:37 »

If serious, there is treasure of the mankind!

Treasure! Do you mean Gold and Diamonds?
Are you happy to share the knowledge of this treasure with mankind?
Should you not be keeping the treasure so you can fund further research?
 

Offline Vern

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Photonic Gravity - Deleted by BenV at 2009-02-09 18:12:46
« Reply #91 on: 09/02/2009 15:42:59 »
How did you manage to discover it? Ok; I see; Google Earth. I'll take a look.
« Last Edit: 09/02/2009 15:45:46 by Vern »
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #92 on: 09/02/2009 16:10:03 »
I went to the location with Google Earth, but couldn't make out any detail. It looked like open ocean; however the bottom floor map showed an elevation table that might be the size of a small continent.
 

Offline K.Margiani

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« Reply #93 on: 09/02/2009 16:34:06 »
There is seen half circle only.Diameter of the Golden City was about 100km (5 stade = 92 km)
we can observe central point of the temple. Of course everything, by thick petrified magma and sedimentary layer is covered.

- In the capital of Atlantis there was a grove of Poseidon (Crit. 117b) and the temple of Poseidon consisted of gold, silver, ivory and orichalcum(processed copperís surface with imitation of the gold). In the temple was monument sculpture Poseidon standing in a chariot drawn by six winged horses, surrounded by dolphins. Thus, if Atlantis City really ever existed, modern coordinates of the golden temple which lies beneath the ocean are that; Latitude: 37:19N, Longitude: 24:58W.
 
« Last Edit: 09/02/2009 16:42:09 by K.Margiani »
 

Offline K.Margiani

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more atlantis stuff
« Reply #94 on: 09/02/2009 16:51:59 »
There is seen half circle only.Diameter of the Golden City was about 100km (5 stade = 92 km)
we can observe central point of the temple. Of course everything, by thick petrified magma and sedimentary layer is covered.

- In the capital of Atlantis there was a grove of Poseidon (Crit. 117b) and the temple of Poseidon consisted of gold, silver, ivory and orichalcum(processed copperís surface with imitation of the gold). In the temple was monument sculpture Poseidon standing in a chariot drawn by six winged horses, surrounded by dolphins. Thus, if Atlantis City really ever existed, modern coordinates of the golden temple which lies beneath the ocean are that; Latitude: 37:19N, Longitude: 24:58W.


 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #95 on: 09/02/2009 16:58:50 »
Okay; that looks interesting. The sea-floor ridges resemble a giant caldera in that area.
 

Offline K.Margiani

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more atlantis stuff
« Reply #96 on: 09/02/2009 17:05:56 »
There is survived quarter plane only. A Caldera has not similar plane as well as central strange point!
You can not ever find in a caldera something like this!
"This part of the island looked towards the south, and was sheltered from the north."
« Last Edit: 09/02/2009 17:18:08 by K.Margiani »
 

Offline BenV

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« Reply #97 on: 09/02/2009 18:09:46 »
MOD - I have merged this with the other atlantis thread - please keep all discussion of your hypothesis to one thread, otherwise we'll have duplicated discussions going on all over the place. Any new threads on the same topic will be deleted.
« Last Edit: 09/02/2009 18:11:46 by BenV »
 

Offline Vern

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« Reply #98 on: 09/02/2009 18:11:47 »
I'll get Google Earth going and look around the area some more.
 

Offline LoneStar77

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ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
« Reply #99 on: 10/02/2009 05:36:18 »
Carl - you raise some interesting points. Unfortunately I know nothing about geology.

I shall digest the rest of what you wrote and regurgitate my musings on it later  :D

Well, DocBeaver. The three points of data really had nothing to do with geology, directly. Though they may have been caused by the subsidence of Atlantis, if such a place existed.

I offered PROOF that something BIG happened ~9600 BCE (the year Plato's legendary island empire sank), and these three points of evidence support that subsidence. And not one comment? Hmmm-m-m! Come on guys and gals! Proof! Doesn't that provoke something of the scientist in you?  ;)

Two points of evidence were climatic (one with help from a geological event somewhere -- volcanic in nature), but from different disciplines. The third point was from oceanographic data, but biological in nature.

Scientists have puzzled about the abrupt ending to the Younger Dryas mini-Ice Age (1300 years of return to Ice Age conditions). A mega-tsunami from the tectonic collapse of a Texas-sized plot of land could have created  the necessary disturbance to the conditions that created the YD in the first place.

A moderately large volcanic trace in the Greenland ice cores shows that there was some volcanic activity at the time Atlantis supposedly sank. This wind-blown precipitation may have originated from a geological event, but the evidence is from climatic research. The volcanic activity apparently continued for roughly another two years or so. Could we expect the Azores region (volcanic for millions of years) to have erupted with the collapse of Atlantis (assuming that was the region where the island empire existed)?

A two-meter drop in sea level worldwide! Calculate the volume of ocean water displaced by a Texas-sized plot of land (I actually used 1.5 x Texas) and assume an average drop of 3000 meters. Now spread this over the connected oceans and seas of the world and you get roughly two meters. Two meters apparently were taken from all the oceans and seas to fill the void left by some tectonic collapse.

Atlantis? The dates match! For all four events.

These three data points from oceanographic and climatic data do not prove Atlantis. Heck, they could be three unrelated events. We don't yet have a corpus delicti, but we now seem to have a smoking gun. Interested?

LoneStar77
(Carl Martin)
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ATLANTIS DISCOVERED
« Reply #99 on: 10/02/2009 05:36:18 »

 

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