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Author Topic: To pull or not to pull  (Read 3987 times)

Kittycat

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To pull or not to pull
« on: 24/04/2005 18:45:24 »
The stomach tube of course. The latest way to commit murder as if abortion wasn't enough.
My heart goes out to the family of Terri Schiavo. As many of you know she was murdered by her husband using our system and finding a weakness in it.

It hit close to home for me since my friend (Rob) is recovering wonderfully from severe brain damage using Glyconutrients. Rob's mother was very upset at what was happening to Terri. I wanted so much to be able to reach out to Terri's family and help somehow. This is a evil thing that is happening to our world. It concerns many families whose loved ones can't eat or speak for themselves.

Who will speak up for the little ones (unborn) and big ones (born), who can't speak up for themselves. I will. Cathy

His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness


 

Offline daveshorts

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Re: To pull or not to pull
« Reply #1 on: 24/04/2005 19:45:09 »
Unfortunately we do not live in a world with infinite resources. Which is better, to keep feeding a body that no longer has a concious brain attached to it, costing hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in hospital and not letting the family move on and live their lives or to educate, immunise,  feed and clothe a thousand African children?

Letting her die by starvation is immensely cruel,a cop out, and something no civilised society would let happen to a dog. So we should allow doctors to finish it in a painless manner.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: To pull or not to pull
« Reply #2 on: 24/04/2005 19:54:13 »
Cathy, what's your take if the women is most certainly going to die unless she has a termination of a pregnancy..lets say  she's 10 weeks pregnant for example ?...just curious that's all.

Thanks

Neil


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Kittycat

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Re: To pull or not to pull
« Reply #3 on: 25/04/2005 19:51:59 »
Hi Dave and Neil

The attitude of getting rid of inconvenient people is becoming more and more the norm. As you said Dave, a civilized nation wouldn't do that to an animal.

I think we call all agree that this sets a precedence for other situations and once you open Pandora's box it may be impossible to close it again.

Neil, to answer your question, I have a friend who was about 8 months preggie and her doctor's told her that her baby didn't have a brain and they were pushing her to have an abortion.
Her daughter was born perfectly normal and very smart.
Personally this puts doubts in my mind that the doctors can really tell what is going on inside sometimes. Cathy

His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness
 

Offline daveshorts

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Re: To pull or not to pull
« Reply #4 on: 25/04/2005 23:05:00 »
The slippery slope arguement is a little overused, if you apply that to all situations we should ban coffee and chocolate as allowing some mind altering drugs, would lead down the slippery slope to universal heroin addiction!

Just defining alive is a difficult problem,
Able to reproduce,
Concious,
the possibility of becoming concious,
breathing
heart beating
breathing on a machine...
Some cells are still alive if you pump oxygen and glucose over them..

where do you draw the line?

The world is a messy place full of grey areas, we just have to try and muddle through and make it as good a place as possible. I don't think that pretending it is a place of black and whites will do anything to help, and may well considerably increase the suffering.
 

Offline neilep

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Re: To pull or not to pull
« Reply #5 on: 25/04/2005 23:24:27 »
quote:
Originally posted by Kittycat


Neil, to answer your question, I have a friend who was about 8 months preggie and her doctor's told her that her baby didn't have a brain and they were pushing her to have an abortion.
Her daughter was born perfectly normal and very smart.
Personally this puts doubts in my mind that the doctors can really tell what is going on inside sometimes. Cathy

His grace is sufficient and His strength is made perfect in my weakness



Thanks Cathy, but you seem to have side stepped the question and not really answered it , you've cited an event that I can't prove or disprove....but at least you said ' sometimes' and don't purport to believe that doctors are wrong all the time.

I knew this was a possibly contentious issue but is was fuelled by your statement in the first line of your above posting that  "abortion is murder" !...that's it...Abortion IS murder !!....that's a blatant declaration and I wanted to know how fundamental your feelings were. What if I was to say that even to your satisfaction, it could be proven that a mother will die unless the pregnancy is terminated would that manifest a different answer perhaps ?

I know this is a tempestuous subject and I'm aware of the radical behaviour of anti-abortion groups in the US,( even to the point of murder......I'm not of course saying that's you Cathy...no no no)...but I'm aware how extreme some points of view are.

I apprecaite your conversation about this.

Neil


Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
« Last Edit: 26/04/2005 19:59:35 by neilep »
 

Offline Exodus

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Re: To pull or not to pull
« Reply #6 on: 26/04/2005 13:49:10 »
Being an essex lad and looking at the title, i thought my expertise may have been perfect... not sure i'm as much help on this subject
 

Offline Ultima

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Re: To pull or not to pull
« Reply #7 on: 29/04/2005 17:23:34 »
Murder is a bit strong, but I do understand the point of view. Here’s my take…

For both abortion and "mercy" killing you can't generalise, you have to look at every case as fresh. I would say that it's acceptable for abortion if the woman was raped or they felt they really aren't emotionally/financially capable of carrying/looking after a child (but then adoption is always a possibility). Plus what if the child was going to be born with a very degenerative birth defect FOR CERTAIN and would only live say a year or two at most, is it really fair to allow somebody to live that. Just because an egg has been fertilised and has divided a few times, that doesn’t make it a person. It’s like saying you should capture every egg and sperm ever created just because they have the chance at new life. It’s worth remembering that nature itself also performs “abortions” if there are mega defects with a fertilised egg it just dies and is disposed of.
However if the argument is only "oh i'm too young" or "but I don't want a baby", my answer is NO WAY, these people are just morally weak and should give there baby up for adoption if they really, really don't care, there are LOTS of people desperate to adopt a baby.
It scares the crap out of me to think that in theory I could have a four year old son/daughter, there is no way I am mature enough in any way to bring up a child yet??? So I do also see how young people are terrified by the prospect, but hey unless there is some religious objection ITS CALLED A CONTRACEPTIVE!!!!! This is freely available in the UK in many forms for both men and women! Isn't it great to live in a welfare state?
My view on mercy killing's is fairly liberal too because I can tell you all now, if you ever meet me and I cant use my brain or cant communicate with the outside world at all JUST KILL ME, it's just not worth it. I’ve seen a close relative die slowly from a brain tumour, and it’s not something I ever want to suffer to the bitter end. I would possibly fight up until just before I couldn’t remember who I was (by then it might be too late though).
If I had Huntington’s disease or anything that I knew was going to degrade my mental ability I would just end it before it got too bad (if I had the strength or mental will to, it would be easier if I could ask a doctor to do it). If I got old and very senile the same goes. However I wouldn’t want to be axed by some stranger or have it as a forced legal requirement that I must die to make way for “poor African children” or the next generation.


wOw the world spins?
« Last Edit: 29/04/2005 17:39:30 by Ultima »
 

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Re: To pull or not to pull
« Reply #7 on: 29/04/2005 17:23:34 »

 

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