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Author Topic: What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?  (Read 22541 times)

Offline Chemistry4me

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #25 on: 02/02/2009 21:51:47 »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #26 on: 02/02/2009 21:54:47 »
I am still wondering about alcoholism rates in the USA, Germany , UK, other European country. I would like to compare. Anyone got some numbers?

I don't have figures for that
 

Offline Karsten

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #27 on: 02/02/2009 22:01:50 »
Thank you Dr.Beaver for your informative and long comment. I had heard about your research (or like this) when I worked with people suffering from substance abuse.

Yes, it is a problem that often research is abused or used in ways that were never intended or imagined. I am torn about this. Should a scientist be thinking about and feel responsible for what can be done with what they find out? Or should they put their great talent to work without being held back by such ethical concerns? Should the discovery and publishing of knowledge be limited if it is clear that it will be abused? Do scientists have no responsibility? It is obvious that humans have great talent to discover knowledge and create incredible technology. We seem to have little talent though to use it wisely. It is a dilemma.

 

Offline Karsten

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #28 on: 02/02/2009 22:07:04 »
There's one on Sweden, Czech Repubulic and France

Seems like cheaper booze results in higher consumption and higher incidence of chronic liver disease/cirrhosis. Not a surprise, really.

Now, data for the USA please. I need to compare with where I live.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #29 on: 02/02/2009 22:18:02 »
What kind of data do you want? Consumption? Production? Availability?
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #30 on: 02/02/2009 22:21:14 »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #31 on: 02/02/2009 22:26:51 »
Yes, it is a problem that often research is abused or used in ways that were never intended or imagined. I am torn about this. Should a scientist be thinking about and feel responsible for what can be done with what they find out? Or should they put their great talent to work without being held back by such ethical concerns? Should the discovery and publishing of knowledge be limited if it is clear that it will be abused? Do scientists have no responsibility? It is obvious that humans have great talent to discover knowledge and create incredible technology. We seem to have little talent though to use it wisely. It is a dilemma.

That is a whole new subject that would be a gross digression were we to discuss it in this thread.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #33 on: 02/02/2009 23:11:24 »
Be very wary of statistics regarding "Road traffic accidents involving alcohol". In the UK, if a pedestrian who has had even just 1 drink causes an RTA it is classed as a drink-related accident. Because of the way the figures are presented, most people reading them assume it was the driver who had been drinking. A few years ago when I tried to get the figures for accidents caused by drivers who have been drinking I was told that they are not kept.
 

Offline LeeE

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #34 on: 02/02/2009 23:33:31 »
I believe that RTAs where a driver who has not consumed alcohol causes an accident that involves e.g. hits another car, which is being driven by someone who has consumed alcohol, are also treated as involving alcohol.

While it is clear that alcohol impedes ability generally, and in the context of motoring is positively dangerous, obscuring and/or misrepresenting the underlying data doesn't help give an accurate picture of what's really going on.  But then that's agendas for you, when some people want to prove a point or "send a message" regardless of whether it's actually true or not.
 

Offline yor_on

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #35 on: 03/02/2009 12:58:48 »
Maybe Gapminder can give you an idea of the relative 'health' of different nations?
http://graphs.gapminder.org/world/
It's worth a try, and if they don't have alcohol/drugs as a parameter it's long overdue:)
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #36 on: 03/02/2009 14:43:32 »
LeeE - that is true. If any one of those involved in the accident had had a drink, whether that person caused the accident or not it would be classed as drink-related.
 

Offline NobodySavedMe

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #37 on: 03/02/2009 23:18:27 »
What do you all think about the impact and effects of alcoholism on youths?

go out at night and get stabbed or killed by these low lifes.

western civilization is collapsing thru lack of any morals/values and thru drink and drugs.

barbarians with technology.

 

Offline Chemistry4me

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #38 on: 04/02/2009 02:07:03 »
Yeah, very true indeed.
 

Offline pearlyteo

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #39 on: 04/02/2009 08:53:00 »
Hi I am student from Singapore, doing a research on alcoholism on youths.
Do you think that the advertising of alcohols through media have impact and affect youths about the concept of alcoholism?
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #40 on: 04/02/2009 09:01:13 »
Of course it does (well, I think so anyway), the media makes alcohol seem like a must need, like an i-pod or something.
 

Offline LeeE

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #41 on: 04/02/2009 13:51:49 »
Quote
western civilization is collapsing thru lack of any morals/values and thru drink and drugs.

Ah - I knew that someone would link morals with alcohol, which is a drug, so actually they're all just drugs.

Is it the anti-social behaviour, which can sometime occur as a result of alcohol use, that is immoral, or it is the act of consuming drugs for recreation that is immoral?

If western civilisation is shedding it's morals and values, why do you think it is happening?  Is it because of the drugs, or are the drugs because of the lack of morals?  Could societies be shedding certain moral values because they've found that that's what the people at the top have been doing for a very long time and the only thing that many of these morals and values have done for people lower down the hierarchy is to keep them at the bottom?
 

Offline Ashleigh Barnett

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #42 on: 05/02/2009 21:18:20 »
I am a "youth", but I dont drink- just because I dont like the taste.  This means I have two groups of friends- ones i have made through social similarities who don't drink much or at all, and friends through my course subject who love to drink.  generally i think alcohol is fine if you only have one or two. i have only been on a night out twice with my drinking friends and found it horrific to watch them all get smashed off their faces and make fools of themselves leaving me to be responsible for all of them. it makes me embarrassed that i get associated with the same kind of people because i am at university, and hate the stereotype of students being lazy. anyone that has done a science or law degree will know you work 20 hours a day just to keep up!

I believe harsher rules on alcohol should be enforced...maybe the age limit should be risen to somewhere in the 20's?
but then again, why should the rest of the people i know who like to have the occasional drink, or just the one on a night out, be punished?

i saw a program about a girl who had drank so much during her university years that she was going to die within 5 years (and she was only 25!)... so maybe if we leave it long enough survival of the fittest will work its magic lol!
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #43 on: 05/02/2009 21:35:31 »
Raise the age limit sure, but should it be the leagal age for purchasing alcohol or for drinking alcohol?
 

Offline theoverexposed

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #44 on: 06/02/2009 09:26:49 »
Somehow i believe that even if you implement such laws or rules it doesn't directly solve the problem
because some way or another 'youths' will still drink. In fact, it may be even more enticing, because these kids may think "i started drinking before the age limit, i'm cool. it gets me accepted amongst friends."

do u think more awareness may help? like knowing how drinking too much can shorten your life like that university girl?
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #45 on: 06/02/2009 09:30:14 »
Of course it will, but who pays attention these days?
 

Offline LeeE

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #46 on: 06/02/2009 12:09:32 »
I believe harsher rules on alcohol should be enforced...

So you think you should be allowed to impose your will upon anyone with whom you disagree with or don't understand?  If you can't see why some people choose to get intoxicated it is therefore wrong and should be repressed?  People who choose to get intoxicated are only doing something to themselves and no one else, whereas what you advocate is exactly the opposite; because you have already admitted that you don't get intoxicated, the rules you wish to enforce upon other people just won't apply to you.

It is largely because of people who think like you, and wish to impose their will upon others, that so many people want to get intoxicated in the first place; if society was such a good place people wouldn't want to escape from it, but as it is, there are just too many people who think they have a right to dictate to others how they should live their lives.
 

Offline Karsten

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #47 on: 06/02/2009 16:53:51 »
I believe harsher rules on alcohol should be enforced...
People who choose to get intoxicated are only doing something to themselves and no one else, whereas what you advocate is exactly the opposite; because you have already admitted that you don't get intoxicated, the rules you wish to enforce upon other people just won't apply to you.

It is largely because of people who think like you, and wish to impose their will upon others, that so many people want to get intoxicated in the first place; if society was such a good place people wouldn't want to escape from it, but as it is, there are just too many people who think they have a right to dictate to others how they should live their lives.

Nobody cares if you get drunk by yourself and only hurt yourself!
If it just were true that those who get drunk only hurt themselves!

All too often they hurt or even kill others. Ore just break somebody else's stuff. And while you could say that this is not necessarily the case for each person, those who are drunk when they break the law, commit crimes, or hurt/kill others get away with less penalties because they were drunk and their brain did not function as it would normally (which is true).

It is about the protection of those who cannot protect themselves. Pedestrians walking at the side of the street at night. Women exposed to their violent and drunk husbands. Homeless people becoming the "joke" for a rowdy and drunk group of people and being put on fire.

Maybe you would change your mind about harsher rules when your child gets killed by a drunk driver who has operated a vehicle drunk before and received a slap on the wrist for doing it. Intoxicated people continue to influence other people's lives in a very severe way and they are not held responsible due to the alcohol they consumed.

Unfortunately this stuff is legal and making it illegal does not work. As it is, while you may mess up more often and severely when you are drunk, you better be drunk when you mess up.
 

Offline LeeE

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #48 on: 06/02/2009 20:01:42 »
Quote
Nobody cares if you get drunk by yourself and only hurt yourself!
If it just were true that those who get drunk only hurt themselves!

All too often they hurt or even kill others. Ore just break somebody else's stuff

So it's only people who are intoxicated who hurt others, or break their stuff?  No, of course not.  If someone hurts someone else or damages someone else's property then someone has been hurt or property damaged regardless of whether they were intoxicated or not.  And where have you got the idea that the law prosecutes those who have committed crimes whilst intoxicated less severely than those who were not?  Exactly how do you think that the law is supposed to work anyway?  It's not there primarily to punish people i.e. hurt them because they have hurt someone else, which achieves nothing, but to deter further intentional crime and ensure that society is protected from intentional crime.  However, I'll not deny that increasingly these days, people are punished out of spite for being careless or in some cases, just for having an accident, which seems not only pointless but medieval.

Whatever this issue is about, it's certainly not about the protection of people who can't protect themselves.  I'm not sure what you mean about pedestrians walking at the side of the street at night but alcohol doesn't result in women being 'exposed' to their violent and drunk husbands.  First of all, people do not need to be drunk to be violent, and secondly, unless they're physically locked up, they can remove themselves from the threat of danger or report it to the police as the violent crime that it is.  This is not to say that acting to protect yourself is necessarily easy, but then neither is life in general.  One thing for sure though, focusing on alcohol, or even other recreational drugs, as the reason that these types of incident occur is missing the real causes and will do nothing to stop them.

The rest of the examples you gave are so distorted that I'm not prepared to be drawn in to arguing against them.  If you really do believe that society works that way then simply talking sense and truth to you will be a waste of my time.  You have an agenda and are distorting and exaggerating the facts to support that agenda.
 

Offline Karsten

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #49 on: 07/02/2009 19:46:13 »
Quote
Nobody cares if you get drunk by yourself and only hurt yourself!
If it just were true that those who get drunk only hurt themselves!

All too often they hurt or even kill others. Ore just break somebody else's stuff

So it's only people who are intoxicated who hurt others, or break their stuff?  No, of course not.  If someone hurts someone else or damages someone else's property then someone has been hurt or property damaged regardless of whether they were intoxicated or not.  And where have you got the idea that the law prosecutes those who have committed crimes whilst intoxicated less severely than those who were not?  Exactly how do you think that the law is supposed to work anyway?  It's not there primarily to punish people i.e. hurt them because they have hurt someone else, which achieves nothing, but to deter further intentional crime and ensure that society is protected from intentional crime.  However, I'll not deny that increasingly these days, people are punished out of spite for being careless or in some cases, just for having an accident, which seems not only pointless but medieval.

Whatever this issue is about, it's certainly not about the protection of people who can't protect themselves.  I'm not sure what you mean about pedestrians walking at the side of the street at night but alcohol doesn't result in women being 'exposed' to their violent and drunk husbands.  First of all, people do not need to be drunk to be violent, and secondly, unless they're physically locked up, they can remove themselves from the threat of danger or report it to the police as the violent crime that it is.  This is not to say that acting to protect yourself is necessarily easy, but then neither is life in general.  One thing for sure though, focusing on alcohol, or even other recreational drugs, as the reason that these types of incident occur is missing the real causes and will do nothing to stop them.

The rest of the examples you gave are so distorted that I'm not prepared to be drawn in to arguing against them.  If you really do believe that society works that way then simply talking sense and truth to you will be a waste of my time.  You have an agenda and are distorting and exaggerating the facts to support that agenda.


I have an agenda? Distorted and exaggerated examples? I don't respond to truth and sense? Try me! You would be the first one to not get a reasonable conversation with me if you bring forward sound reason yourself.

I will take back what I wrote about domestic violence and alcohol consumption. There seems to be correlation but not more. However, I don't think you have to look very far to find cases as described by me above. Every single year we have pedestrians here who get hit at night by drunken drivers. One of my former students is paralyzed neck-down because another former student decided to try to drive. Both were drunk. Last year a 4 year old girl was killed in her own yard by a drunk young man who decided that racing his car down the town road was a good idea and he lost control and skidded into the girl's yard where she was playing.  It won't be difficult to find more reports that include alcohol and others getting hurt. You cannot deny a correlation. While cause and effect are in question, I believe there is little doubt that alcohol does impair judgment. This result of alcohol consumption cannot be a good thing.

Sure, incidents like this occur when people are sober as well. I wrote this in my last post already. The problem though is that once you are under the influence, your brain is not as functional and you cannot be treated as if you were sober. Please understand, I would not want someone who is drunk and commits a crime to be treated as if they had their full decision making skills in place. As far as I understand they do not. Not while under the influence. That, in my opinion, makes alcohol so dangerous. Drinking it in any quantities is legal for most adults, it messes up your judgment, and when you hurt someone else you have to be treated differently since your judgment was impaired. I HOPE they get treated differently.

No, I am not in favor of punishment alone. However I am in favor for taking privileges away from people who abuse them and act carelessly and dangerously. In my opinion, people who act less responsibly should have fewer responsibilities and not be allowed to be in positions that require personal responsibility to not hurt others. And while alcohol is here to stay (and the causes for the trouble may lie deeper than merely be a result of consumption) it seems appropriate to discuss what to do with people who hurt others while drunk. Unless you are about 2 years old, there is something very big between "intentional" and "unintentional". It is called "negligence" and it seems to me that drinking alcohol and doing anything that involves reasonable decision making and/or fast reactions in order to prevent injury (or worse) is negligent.

The big question is: Does alcohol consumption result in more injuries, property damage, and death? If yes, it seems worth pointing out and worrying about the abuse of this liquid, and considering consequences. If drinking alcohol reduces a person's abilities and drinking it is legal - this makes me think there is a problem. If not, I would like to know, but I will be slow in changing my mind since I tend to err on the side of caution. Does alcohol reduce your ability to be as responsible as without?
 

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #49 on: 07/02/2009 19:46:13 »

 

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