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Author Topic: What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?  (Read 22568 times)

Offline LeeE

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #50 on: 08/02/2009 00:58:08 »
Sigh...

Yes, you are distorting the evidence you're presenting, and do it again a little further down the page when you refer to a four year old child.  What difference does it make how old the person was?  The only reason to make that fact clear is if you're trying to make the issue emotive instead of rational.

Someone getting run over by a drunken driver doesn't mean that people only get run over by drunken drivers, so using that, and the similar examples you cite, as arguments to support your case doesn't really work.  The same thing happens with or without alcohol or other intoxicants and the absence of one does not result in absence of the other.  Similarly, the presence of one does not guarantee presence of the other.

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However I am in favor for taking privileges away from people who abuse them

Ah, I think that says it all really; to you, life comes down to being a privilege, not a fundamental right.  I guess if you don't regard yourself as free it must seem quite reasonable to dictate how other people should live their life.
 

Offline Karsten

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #51 on: 08/02/2009 18:00:45 »
Wait a second here!

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However I am in favor for taking privileges away from people who abuse them
Ah, I think that says it all really; to you, life comes down to being a privilege, not a fundamental right.  I guess if you don't regard yourself as free it must seem quite reasonable to dictate how other people should live their life.

I DO NOT CONSIDER LIFE A PRIVILEGE NOR FAVOR TAKING LIFE AWAY! What in the world makes you think that? Could you read what I write please? You keep taking my comments out of context and turning what I write upside down. I am beginning to wonder who has an agenda here?

The only reason to make that fact clear is if you're trying to make the issue emotive instead of rational.
Agreed, it does not matter how old the child was. I presented several examples. You choose to ignore all but the emotional one. What matters was that the driver was drunk and made a bad decision. Like other people hundreds of times. Drunk or sober. BUT alcohol is a drug that influences the brain in ways that inhibits rational decision making. Or is that not true? Let's talk rational here. Does alcohol inhibit rational decision making?

Someone getting run over by a drunken driver doesn't mean that people only get run over by drunken drivers, so using that, and the similar examples you cite, as arguments to support your case doesn't really work.  The same thing happens with or without alcohol or other intoxicants and the absence of one does not result in absence of the other.  Similarly, the presence of one does not guarantee presence of the other.
Of course it works! Just because something does not ALWAYS result in a certain result does not mean it is irrelevant. Medicine does not ALWAYS give you the same results. We sure use it though because it has proven to increase PROBABILITY for a certain result. Do you honestly trust an intoxicated bus driver (that is just an example!) as much as a sober one? You would not feel (maybe even supported by statistics) that there is a higher chance that this person is going to injure you while you are on this bus? You would have no problem if this person does not experience a job-related consequence for behaving this way? You would not worry about this symptom and inhibition (be it a result of feeling miserable, a broken society, or something else) since it is an expression of personal freedom?

Lee, I think you are evading the real issue by attempting to push me in the corner or "emotional thinkers" and belittling my arguments this way. My unanswered question remains: Does alcohol make you less able to make rational decisions? And, if yes, what do we do when people put their feelings of unlimited personal freedom above the health and well-being of other people and/or their property and consume alcohol when they should not? The first is a science question but I cannot get a straight answer. The second is not and we may not be able to answer it to our satisfaction here.
« Last Edit: 08/02/2009 18:04:59 by Karsten »
 

Offline LeeE

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #52 on: 08/02/2009 23:04:36 »
The issue/question was never "Does alcohol make you less able to make rational decisions?" 

What I took exception to was a comment where someone linked morals with alcohol use.  Someone else then chipped in by saying that they believed that imposing harsher rules on alcohol should be enforced.  Both of these people seemed to believe that the cause of the problems they were alluding to were the direct consequence of alcohol and without alcohol those problems would not exist, or would be cured.  You then joined in, with your emotive comments about women being exposed to violence because of alcohol, and asking how I would feel if my child was run over by a drunken driver, implying that I would feel different depending on how my child was killed.  Ah yes - looking back I notice that you also added that the drunk driver who had killed my child "has operated a vehicle drunk before and received a slap on the wrist for doing it."

You may be able to get away with emotive but irrational arguments and changing the topic to win an argument with some people, but not with me.
 

Offline Karsten

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #53 on: 09/02/2009 00:17:34 »
The issue/question was never "Does alcohol make you less able to make rational decisions?" 
Agreed, that was not the topic to begin with. I was trying to get an answer for this though for quite a while now while you are going back to my examples. I will have to begin a new thread with that topic since I cannot get an answer to this interesting question.

You then joined in, with your emotive comments about women being exposed to violence because of alcohol, and asking how I would feel if my child was run over by a drunken driver, implying that I would feel different depending on how my child was killed.  Ah yes - looking back I notice that you also added that the drunk driver who had killed my child "has operated a vehicle drunk before and received a slap on the wrist for doing it."

I joined in because with some examples because you claimed that "..people who choose to get intoxicated are only doing something to themselves and no one else.." which is just not true and should not stand there like this. My comments did not relate to the original topic and had little to do with young people but it seemed your comments white-washed an issue beyond tolerable. Sure I picked some examples to illustrate a point. The opposite point and often terrible reality. This is not an issue that involves merely mild property damage. My examples were intended to create an emotional response to counter-weight what you had written so rationally, but at least they were not wrong.

I did not intend to imply that you would feel differently depending on how your child was killed. I hope it never happens to anyone. As a matter of fact (and I have to quote myself her since you still cannot get it straight) what I wrote was that "maybe you would change your mind about harsher rules when your child gets killed by a drunk driver who has operated a vehicle drunk before and received a slap on the wrist for doing it". I did not write anywhere that you would feel in any particular way concerning your child but about lenient drunk driving laws and repeat offenders. The second part of my quote is rather important and misunderstandings arise if you read (and quote) only parts of what people say. This was not "added" as you say.

You may be able to get away with emotive but irrational arguments and changing the topic to win an argument with some people, but not with me.
How come you see my comments as emotive but irrational and your own comments about "anti-social behavior", "escaping from society", "the right to dictate to others", etc. are supposedly rational and free of emotions?

It is neither mine nor your place to decide who wins our argument.
 

Offline jooneo

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #54 on: 13/05/2009 19:18:27 »
Personally I'm a youth, aged 19, and i love to drink. However i know my limits of drinking and will not lead to alcohol addictions. I think that youths should not be addicted to drink because alot of bad consequences will they faced. But well, i don't know why youths like to drink till drunk dead when they knew that the feeling of hangover is not good.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #55 on: 14/05/2009 08:09:54 »
I bet every alcoholic started off saying "i know my limits of drinking and will not lead to alcohol addiction"
 

lyner

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #56 on: 14/05/2009 18:34:24 »
It's not unlike this forum, in fact.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #57 on: 15/05/2009 09:24:37 »
Is that a compliment or an insult? :-X
 

Offline ccqh

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #58 on: 03/07/2009 15:37:10 »
i heard that learning and memory will be affected to those youths who drink. actually its not really on youths but everyone i guess?oh and an interesting fact which i have learnt: teen alcohol users are most vulnerable to damaging two key areas of the brain that are undergoing dramatic changes: the hippocampus and prefrontal area of the brain.A source mentioned that the hippocampus controls the memory and learning and suffers from the worst alcohol-related damage in teens!

 

Offline drunk

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #59 on: 20/07/2009 18:03:29 »
hello ccqh, i agree that learning and memory will affect all who drink not only the youths. Alcohol does not have its sense of bias and only affect those that it wants to. The only way to prevent alcohol addiction is to  drink moderately and for safety measure, don t drive!  [O8)]
 

Offline exton

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #60 on: 20/07/2009 22:11:31 »
i don't know why youths like to drink till drunk dead when they knew that the feeling of hangover is not good.

It's because the hangover comes later, and being drunk feels good now.
 

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What is the impact of alcoholism on youths?
« Reply #60 on: 20/07/2009 22:11:31 »

 

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