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Author Topic: How is the size of the Earth changing with time?  (Read 24776 times)

Hei-Tai

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« on: 04/02/2009 17:55:52 »

I have wondering that earth-ball is not been this diameter always what is it now.

So i make question to my self;

What was the diameter of earth at example 2 500 000 000 years backward?

What it will be at example 1 000 000 000 years forward?

I think those question are so that there is no answer,,,why so?

1. We cannot known is earth-ball now-a-year growing or smalling.

« Last Edit: 06/02/2009 11:43:11 by chris »

Vern

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Re: How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #1 on: 04/02/2009 18:10:01 »
I don't know the answers to your questions off hand but the earth is steadily growing as space debris rains down upon it. I'm sure it is a small amount comparably, but folks that study that will know.

Soul Surfer

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Re: How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #2 on: 04/02/2009 19:47:12 »
The size of the earth has not changed and is not likely to change by any significant amount from the collision that created the moon until the final demise of the sun in 5,000,000,000 million years time after a significant frying during the red giant phase.  The accretion of space debris is entirely insignificant in relation to the earth's mass  a fraction of one percent over the whole period.

Hei-Tai

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Re: How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #3 on: 05/02/2009 19:32:57 »
I don't know the answers to your questions off hand but the earth is steadily growing as space debris rains down upon it. I'm sure it is a small amount comparably, but folks that study that will know.

Can we measure that size-diameter and how it change?

Can we say what is age of earth-ball if we dont know what is the size-diameter changes?

If cource we known that earth-ball age is minimun example, 1 000 000 000 years,,,but how old it is,,,can we truly say that?

We known that diameter today is about 13000km but do we known what was diameter at example, 1 000 000 000 years ago?

I think that we cannot measure and prove that.

Vern

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Re: How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #4 on: 05/02/2009 20:02:52 »
Soul Surfer's answer seems correct to me. If we take the minimum of the accretion studies we find 10,000 tons of debris a year falls on earth; maximum has that around 300,000 tons; most put it at about 20,000 tons. Compared to  5,973,700,000,000,000,000,000 metric tons mass of the earth it is not that significant.

syhprum

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Re: How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #5 on: 06/02/2009 11:32:53 »
Of course not only is the Earth acquiring matter from space it is also losing Hydrogen as water molecules are spilt by radiation at the top of the atmosphere.

Hei-Tai

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #6 on: 07/02/2009 15:17:56 »

I if think earth-life nex ways;

Age/years X       Diameter/km. Y
- 1 000 000 000      ?????
-     1 000 000   10000-16000 ?
-       100 000   12000-14000 ?
Today      13000
+       100 000   14000-12000?
+     1 000 000   16000-10000?
+ 1 000 000 000       ?????

I mean that today we know what is the diameter of earth-ball.

But do we known is the diameter going bigger or smaller direction?

And do we know that change-hmm. curve X-Y, i meant that what is the size-diameter variant,,,year/km.

Of cource earth take matter-particles from space and also it loose matter-particles. And short time,,i mean earth-life-time example 1 000 000 year dont perhaps happend any big changes this diameter.

If we thing that we must known how planets diameter change we must start to measure it. Earth and moon is quite near to measure it's diameter.
Results can see at perhaps 100 generation forward..i dont see that,,but still.

Vern

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #7 on: 07/02/2009 15:54:05 »
Well; I think as we indicated in earlier posts, the earth ball is probably getting a little bit larger. However the gain in size is so comparatively small that it is not worth considering.

yor_on

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #8 on: 11/02/2009 20:02:00 »
Chris posted this paper, and, it is fitting to this question too:)

It's quite cool.

Hei-Tai

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #9 on: 11/02/2009 20:29:45 »
Chris posted this paper, and, it is fitting to this question too:)

It's quite cool.

Do you think that paper give answer of my question?

What point of time we are now?

And can we make values those X and Y scale?

« Last Edit: 11/02/2009 20:32:19 by Hei-Tai »

Vern

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #10 on: 11/02/2009 21:40:56 »
The paper that Chris posted has the numbers you need for the calculations you can use for your x y plot. There seems to be a lack of interest to do this for you. You will be more apt to believe the results if you do it yourself.

On the scale you are using, I predict you will not be able to detect a difference in the size of the ball. You have 2.0 x 10 ^ 4 net debris each year; divide that by 5.9 x 10 ^ 21 and that should give you a number to use for your growth factor. It is a pretty little number.
« Last Edit: 11/02/2009 21:46:13 by Vern »

Andrew K Fletcher

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #11 on: 11/02/2009 22:17:54 »
Well; I think as we indicated in earlier posts, the earth ball is probably getting a little bit larger. However the gain in size is so comparatively small that it is not worth considering.

Unless our estimate of the age of the Earth is completely wrong!

Vern

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #12 on: 11/02/2009 22:54:19 »
Well; stranger things have happened; but there's a whole bunch of folks who have used some reliable methods to calculate that age. My suspicion is that they came pretty close. We would have to show that the methods don't work; and several different methods show the same general age.

Andrew K Fletcher

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #13 on: 12/02/2009 16:01:45 »
Had this argument a while back, adding that any rocks found on the surface would undoubtedly have been recycled many times by tectonic movement and erosion processes, so therefore can never be relied upon to give an accurate age for the Earth.

In reality science has evaluated the age of the rocks not the planet.

Well; stranger things have happened; but there's a whole bunch of folks who have used some reliable methods to calculate that age. My suspicion is that they came pretty close. We would have to show that the methods don't work; and several different methods show the same general age.

Vern

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #14 on: 12/02/2009 17:53:52 »
True AKF; all we have is the age since the oldest rocks became solid. Old Sol might have kept the earth liquid for a long time. I suspect the folks who did the studies are pretty closed to getting it right though. I can't think of any indicators that would suggest that the studies were wrong.

Hei-Tai

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #15 on: 12/02/2009 19:10:01 »
Had this argument a while back, adding that any rocks found on the surface would undoubtedly have been recycled many times by tectonic movement and erosion processes, so therefore can never be relied upon to give an accurate age for the Earth.

In reality science has evaluated the age of the rocks not the planet.

Quote

And this rocks-age dont tell us what is totally age that rock,,example we dont know what is the radioactive-half process changes to that half-process time.

He worked out a carbon-14 half-life of 5568±30 years,

hal life
5568 years

do we know what is half-

1 000 000 000 year time past

or is it the same half-/year

and when we measure that half-life,,what we measure,,,material particles which can be exist forever or not forever

But smaller issue;

Those X-Y values,,,what we can say those values?

And how long we must measure our earth-size-diameter that we can sign some point of y-line today-mark?

Therefore i say that perhaps is easy path to start to measure moon-diameter,,,that information comes maybe few hundreds year period,,,and that information gives to us measured information that what is moon x-change/year.

Hei-Tai

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #16 on: 12/02/2009 19:11:43 »

Sorry i take quote some how wrong [:I]

Hei-Tai

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #17 on: 12/02/2009 19:18:57 »

Those X-Y values,,,what we can say those values?

And how long we must measure our earth-size-diameter that we can sign some point of y-line today-mark?

Therefore i say that perhaps is easy path to start to measure moon-diameter,,,that information comes maybe few hundreds year period,,,and that information gives to us measured information that what is moon x-change/year.

When we have measured that diameter-change then we possible can put that today-sign to y-line,,,to life curve point.

erickejah

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #18 on: 13/02/2009 00:55:16 »
What would be the affection to the human being from the earth slow-Sluggish-unhurried growth?

Andrew K Fletcher

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #19 on: 14/02/2009 13:45:52 »
Precisely that, The Earth has probably been growing for many billions of years longer than is curently believed.

My take is that the Earth started very small with a steady state and gradually has increased in heat generated by the compression at the core as it expands. Not that it started as a huge explosion forming a solid that gradually cools down. This is absurd IMO.

What would be the affection to the human being from the earth slow-Sluggish-unhurried growth?

Bored chemist

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #20 on: 14/02/2009 16:18:07 »
Andrew, either you are wrong or all the worlds geologists are wrong.
How can you expect to be taken seriously when you say that it's "probably" them who are wrong?

It's overwhelmingly probable that the earth is much the same size as it was when it was first made roughly 4.5 billion years ago.
The details of how we know this are given here
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html
and elsewhere.

Your contention that the heat is generated by the debris falling onto the earth is also nonsense. If there were that much heat we would notice it and more importantly, the centre of the earth would be at the same temperature as the surface.

It is not the recognised ideas of geology that are absurd; it's your notion that's absurd.

At least this makes a change from having to correct "young earthers".
« Last Edit: 14/02/2009 16:25:02 by Bored chemist »

Andrew K Fletcher

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #21 on: 15/02/2009 10:19:11 »
BC my contention is not that the heat is generated by debris falling on the Earth. It is generated by the collective force of every single particle that has arrived here pushing against each other and not cancelling the repelling force but combining it at the core, and that gravity is the combined effect of every attracting side of the same particles that are causing the immense friction at the core.

For every action there must be an opposing equal and opposite reaction! This must apply to gravity too, or do we now have a special law that works around gravity?

Mass = the collective force of the mass not the collective pulling force of the mass but the collective force of the mass which means that the pulling force of all of those particles has not somehow disposed of the repelling force, it has to be accounted for!

It is not I that is stupid!

Hei-Tai

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #22 on: 15/02/2009 10:21:36 »

Of cource earth-born can have 2 possibilityes.
A. Sun throw some heat melt material and this material start to freeze when time long time goes on.
B. Dust start to join together and long time ago growing and growing.

Today earth is todays size.

Of cource it is maybe possible that volcano can be some kind of cave inside earth surface level,,,i mean that old oil-pocket which are heating and make volcanos,,and that means then that erth surface in-ball-center is not heat,,it is like moon,,only rock. I dont know.

Hei-Tai

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #23 on: 15/02/2009 10:29:44 »
Andrew, either you are wrong or all the worlds geologists are wrong.

World geologists can be wrong,,,why so? They use same theory,,therefore geologist is hmm. not wrong because they believe that basic theory is right,,,.

What is basic theory of that age-specification?

Is it right theory?

It is not right because we dont have better theory,,it is not so.

Must remember our measuring time how we can prove that theory that this theory is right.

When we says some radioactive time,,,how we have prove that radioactive time-specifitacion is same all time?

But any-path,,,my opinion is that earth is many billions year,,,how many,,that is the point what we cannot calculate,,,even that way

Bored chemist

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #24 on: 15/02/2009 13:02:48 »
BC my contention is not that the heat is generated by debris falling on the Earth. It is generated by the collective force of every single particle that has arrived here pushing against each other and not cancelling the repelling force but combining it at the core, and that gravity is the combined effect of every attracting side of the same particles that are causing the immense friction at the core.

For every action there must be an opposing equal and opposite reaction! This must apply to gravity too, or do we now have a special law that works around gravity?

Mass = the collective force of the mass not the collective pulling force of the mass but the collective force of the mass which means that the pulling force of all of those particles has not somehow disposed of the repelling force, it has to be accounted for!

It is not I that is stupid!

Heat is a form of energy. The only place that the enegry can come from that has anything to do with falling dust is the potential energy that the dust had before it fell.
If any of that energy is subsequently used squashing rocks then there is less available to make heat. You are arguing against yourself here.
Also since mass isn't a force your staement about "Mass = ..." is gibberish.

So you have posted a bunch of word salad and a denial of the conservation of energy on a science based web site. Then you follow it with "It is not I that is stupid!"
Well I assure you that it isn't I that am stupid and it isn't me that is stupid either.

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How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #24 on: 15/02/2009 13:02:48 »