# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: How is the size of the Earth changing with time?  (Read 24781 times)

#### Andrew K Fletcher

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #25 on: 15/02/2009 17:44:15 »
Yet again you fail to address what is happening to the collective repelling force of every single particle that makes up this planet and you and I? Has it somehow vanished into a black hole? Or is it still here pushing against other particles.

Compression generates heat too! Try putting your finger over a bycycle pump and compressing the air. Why would you not think that the huge pressure at the core may not suffice to generate sufficient heat to melt it?

#### A Davis

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #26 on: 24/02/2009 00:29:30 »
I don't know the answer. The Sun gets larger over time, so it could be true for the Earth, a cooling effect.

#### Bored chemist

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #27 on: 24/02/2009 19:20:06 »
Yet again you fail to address what is happening to the collective repelling force of every single particle that makes up this planet and you and I? Has it somehow vanished into a black hole? Or is it still here pushing against other particles.

Compression generates heat too! Try putting your finger over a bycycle pump and compressing the air. Why would you not think that the huge pressure at the core may not suffice to generate sufficient heat to melt it?
OK, for a start that frist sentence should end with "me" not "I".
Rather more importantly, what the F*** force are you on about? Gravity atracts things to one another and, when they get close enough Pauli pressure holds them apart (aided by the mutual repulsion between electrons it's difficult to say which is which in some cases).

However, once everything has stopped moving, though there is a force, there is mo movement.
Since work is force times distance, the work done is zero. Therefore the energy transfered is zero.
Once the particles have stopped moving they don't release any further heat. Since the crash into the surface and stop they can only heat the surface.
Since the core is hotter than the surface this energy (from things falling onto the earth) cannot be a major contributor to keeping the earth warm.

I know that a bicycle pump gets hot. If you stop using it it cools down again. A cylinder of gas isn't hot just because it's under pressure and the earth's core is likewise not hot because of the pressure. It's hot for a well dcumented reason- the radioactive decay of naturally radioactive material- mainly thorium and uranium releases heat.
(Of course, the earth as a whole gets a lot of heat from the sun too).

Why won't you learn some physics?

#### Andrew K Fletcher

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #28 on: 25/02/2009 10:39:48 »
Add 1 gram to the surface of the earth and you add 1 gram of pressure at the core.

#### A Davis

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #29 on: 26/02/2009 00:41:18 »
To BC the heat inside the sun and the earth are both due to relativity. The relativistic mass increase of both was gained due to their rotational increase in velocity around our galaxy. Their mass crusts slow down the rate at which they release this energy increase. Or is this to new for you to understand. I object to the F word.

#### Hei-Tai

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #30 on: 26/02/2009 06:20:50 »
I don't know the answer. The Sun gets larger over time, so it could be true for the Earth, a cooling effect.

My question concern also sun same way.

Do we really known is sun size growing or diminishing?

We have measure sun-diameter todays accurace method about only under 100years,,,and i think that this so short measuring time dont give us enough scientifical measured information to decide that sun is today going bigger or smaller?

What was the sun diameter year 1900,,1950..2000?

#### Ultima

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #31 on: 26/02/2009 09:21:18 »
If you talk about shortly after the creation of the Earth it's possible to think about it being larger and less dense and then cooling? Not sure that fits into the rest of the discussion here though.

Hei-Tai the main thing you need to realise is that you don't have to get measurements of the Earth's diameter through time, you only need to consider the current diameter and then all of the input that gives you excess mass, which is what everyone was telling you. Unless you are talking about the formation of the planet and accretion of matter at the start? Which from some of your other posts about the formation of the Earth, might have been what you were asking without anyone realising?? If you are interested in the formation of the Earth here are a couple of quick links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_formation#Rocky_planets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protoplanetary_disc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_disc

Again talking about the Sun's diameter is fairly confusing since its not a solid, and doesn't have a well defined boundary. What are you counting as the stuff you should measure. Most values you get from books or websites take the layer of the Sun called the photosphere as the "surface" but that isn't a complete definition. Do you count average prominence and solar flare extent??? Do you count the corona? Do you count the solar wind up to some density? When the Sun eventually becomes a Red Giant it won't have uniform mass, it will have a less dense outer shell that expands outwards eventually forming a nebula, but there will still be a much more dense core that will be getting smaller and smaller over a long period of time. So even when the Sun gets bigger in the future over a huge period of time, its kind of getting smaller at the same time, so what does it mean to talk about the diameter of the "Sun". It's a bit more dynamic than a ball of rock... You can say the same for the Earth too, it has an atmosphere which people don't usually count when talking about the diameter, which I find kind of an odd way to think about the Earth!

Geographically you quite often treat the shape of the Earth to be that of its mean gravitational field at the surface or the Geoid, if you did the same for the Sun you are likely to end up with something a bit different, and you might want to think about the magnetic field at the surface instead since that might account for things like prominences.
« Last Edit: 26/02/2009 09:47:14 by Ultima »

#### A Davis

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #32 on: 27/02/2009 00:17:14 »
To HT you are correct there isn't enough experimental evidence to confirm that the sun is expanding as it cools. There is one possible theory for the earth expanding and that's plate tectonics, the plates want to increase the earths diameter, it's prevented from doing so by the plates sliding under each other. Reverse the idea and say the earth is contracting, to me this sliding wouldn't occur and they would form massive mountain ranges. It's only an idea, food for thought.

#### Hei-Tai

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #33 on: 17/06/2009 19:58:50 »

#### Bored chemist

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #34 on: 18/06/2009 06:54:16 »
So, what you meant was a bunch of unscientific guesswork.
Why?

#### Hei-Tai

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #35 on: 20/06/2009 07:20:59 »
So, what you meant was a bunch of unscientific guesswork.
Why?

How those question is un-scientific?

Do you think that if i dont thing that big-bang was happend and etc.,,,or,,things what scientist says is not all thruth,,,,,make my question un-scientific?

And what if my questions is not scientific,,,so what,,,? Free human can make un-scientific questions and still free human is,,,,,human,,,individual living thing.

What is the point of you questions?

Why i live,,,i dont know.

But one reasons is,,,scientist make lot of bad things to our life,,,nuclear bomp,,,gene-manipulation,,,different poisons,,,,electromagnetic vibrations,,,etc,,,,am i wrong if i dont believe that scientist and scient dont has meaning of nature life,,,am i wrong if i says,,,scient dont has life-morale,,life understand,,,nature understand,,,hmm,,,perhaps im wrong or right.

My point is that many things which comes through scient-process is not nature-thruth,,,and dont support life,,,life continue,,,free nature life,,,,and therefore also many old basic scient theoryes are wrong,,,,.

Human is not all-knowing control-unit at nature,,,human is part of nature. [:I]

#### edwlstr

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #36 on: 06/08/2009 06:32:41 »
I suspect the earth is growing. The ocean bottoms are newer and expanding, the continental mass is very much older. This is an assumption that I have made that is based upon another assumption that carbon testing procedures are accurate, which I highly suspect. Questioning this sacred cow of science is likely to make you very unpopular, though. We are uncertain whether accumulation and decay of carbon isotopes occur at the same rates. So it may be that we are using a very faulty measuring stick to measure these ages. But let's not bicker. It doesn't really matter, we are insects on a very insignificant speck of dust in an expanding and apparently endless universe. We cannot matter very much except to God.
« Last Edit: 06/08/2009 06:41:40 by edwlstr »

#### Bored chemist

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #37 on: 06/08/2009 07:07:54 »
I suspect the earth is growing.

#### Stefanb

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##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #38 on: 11/08/2009 04:20:36 »

[/quote]

How those question is un-scientific?

Do you think that if i dont thing that big-bang was happend and etc.,,,or,,things what scientist says is not all thruth,,,,,make my question un-scientific?

And what if my questions is not scientific,,,so what,,,? Free human can make un-scientific questions and still free human is,,,,,human,,,individual living thing.

What is the point of you questions?

Why i live,,,i dont know.

But one reasons is,,,scientist make lot of bad things to our life,,,nuclear bomp,,,gene-manipulation,,,different poisons,,,,electromagnetic vibrations,,,etc,,,,am i wrong if i dont believe that scientist and scient dont has meaning of nature life,,,am i wrong if i says,,,scient dont has life-morale,,life understand,,,nature understand,,,hmm,,,perhaps im wrong or right.

My point is that many things which comes through scient-process is not nature-thruth,,,and dont support life,,,life continue,,,free nature life,,,,and therefore also many old basic scient theoryes are wrong,,,,.

Human is not all-knowing control-unit at nature,,,human is part of nature. [:I]

[/quote]

Hei-Tai, is not nature of itself? Should we not be able to understand it, because we are nature?

I think so. And coming from an irreligious perspective, science explains many natural phenomena. That which we cannot explain, math does. Those enigmas which our mathematical abilities currently cannot explain are not necessarily unexplainable. Rather, we are constantly learning more about nature.

We have developed skills which help us explain nature. Even though we are only looking at things around us from the perspective of a piece of sand in an hourglass as big as the Earth, that does not mean we cannot use experimentation to create theories (which does not mean they are only possibilities) which allow us to explain things that have occurred before we could measure nature, and events that have transpired before our own existence.

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### How is the size of the Earth changing with time?
« Reply #38 on: 11/08/2009 04:20:36 »