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Author Topic: Is the space emptyness?  (Read 2596 times)

Offline Hei-Tai

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Is the space emptyness?
« on: 05/02/2009 19:40:45 »
:)

1900 centuryes comes idea that space is emptyness,,no ether there.

I think that it cannot be possible,,space cannot be pure emptyness;
few reasons;

In the pure emptyness(no matter);
- Magnetic field cannot exist
- space-craft cannot take moving-force
- planets cannot hmm.fly
- example moon-surface cannot exist any gravity-pressure

I think that space is full of matter and this matter-particle size is smaller than light=photons.

Also i think that this matter is i called see-through type like air is.



 

Offline Vern

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Is the space emptyness?
« Reply #1 on: 05/02/2009 19:55:51 »
The reasons you give do not seem valid to me. A magnetic field can exist as long as there is space with magnetic permeability. I see no reason why spacecraft cannot accelerate; rocket thrust requires nothing to push against. Your other examples don't explain your reasoning either.

So I don't see how your argument is valid.:)
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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Is the space emptyness?
« Reply #2 on: 08/02/2009 07:53:59 »
The reasons you give do not seem valid to me. A magnetic field can exist as long as there is space with magnetic permeability. I see no reason why spacecraft cannot accelerate; rocket thrust requires nothing to push against. Your other examples don't explain your reasoning either.

So I don't see how your argument is valid.:)

 :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_(electromagnetism)

- magnetic field
- magnetic permeability
- magnetic wave,,,wave-motion
- etc.

All magnetic-happend needs matter,,,,space is not crossway of that,,it must be full of matter.

Matter cause magnetic-things,,,we can observe magnetic-thing by using instrument which all is made matter-thing.

Electro-magnetic wave must be then matter-vibration-motion process.
Like wave on the water surface or sound through air-matter.

Different thing is that speed,,,and speed-curve distance/speed.


Can space-vehicle goes in the pure emptyness with or without engine?

No, it cannot.

Why?

1. Engine not running.
Because all-around the vehicle is emptyness,,,therefore there is no any kind of force any direction.

2. If engine running.
"Wheel" cause force but because emptyness dont have anti/force or counterforce then vehicle force cannot push vehicle.

Any-thing cannot jump if there is not surface under jump-place. Counterforce.

 :)






 

Offline Vern

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Is the space emptyness?
« Reply #3 on: 08/02/2009 17:32:09 »
Quote from: Hei-Tai
1. Engine not running.
Because all-around the vehicle is emptyness,,,therefore there is no any kind of force any direction.

2. If engine running.
"Wheel" cause force but because emptyness dont have anti/force or counterforce then vehicle force cannot push vehicle.

I can make some sense from your post; some of it gets lost in the language barrier you are struggling against.

In the case of a rocket engine, all of the force needed to propel it is contained within the engine. It does not need anything outside to help in the action-reaction process. The engine works via explosive pressure inside with an opening opposite the direction of desired acceleration. The explosive pressure acting on all sides save the opening pushes the vehicle.

So I still have not seen the need for empty space to be full of matter of some sort; I know this was the argument back in Maxwell's day. He envisioned a mechanical kind of aether within which the electric and magnetic forces operated.


« Last Edit: 08/02/2009 17:35:51 by Vern »
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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Is the space emptyness?
« Reply #4 on: 09/02/2009 20:22:24 »
Quote from: Hei-Tai
1. Engine not running.
Because all-around the vehicle is emptyness,,,therefore there is no any kind of force any direction.

2. If engine running.
"Wheel" cause force but because emptyness dont have anti/force or counterforce then vehicle force cannot push vehicle.

I can make some sense from your post; some of it gets lost in the language barrier you are struggling against.

In the case of a rocket engine, all of the force needed to propel it is contained within the engine. It does not need anything outside to help in the action-reaction process. The engine works via explosive pressure inside with an opening opposite the direction of desired acceleration. The explosive pressure acting on all sides save the opening pushes the vehicle.

So I still have not seen the need for empty space to be full of matter of some sort; I know this was the argument back in Maxwell's day. He envisioned a mechanical kind of aether within which the electric and magnetic forces operated.


 :)
I dont agree of that,,,,my opinion is clear of this issue.

1. Engine not running.
Because all-around the vehicle is emptyness,,,therefore there is no any kind of force any direction.

This is clear,,,if space is emptyness there is no force any direction and therefore any, example, satellite cannot move any direction or stay on one point.

Planets also,,,moon example,,if there is no any force-direction it cannot goes any direction.

If space is empty it means that there is some kind of non-material thing which moves planets, vehicles, etc. How this can do that,,,,because it means that this non-material force push material force.

Therefore my thought is that space must be full of matter and that is the basic-surface and therefore space-vehicles can travell in the space.


I know this was the argument back in Maxwell's day. He envisioned a mechanical kind of aether within which the electric and magnetic forces operated.

If the Maxwell says so,,,that is what i say also,,,and it must be so because all material things flyes only material world,,,,scientist has goes wrong path at 19centuryes when comes idea of non-matter space,,,non-matter magnetic force,,etc.

My thought is that this so called ether is so small matter-particle size that electron is big of that.

Like air,,,few hundreds year backwards human dont understand that air is some kind of matter,,,today we known that light is called photon-thing-particle,,,not vibration only,,,of cource particle can vibrate,,,like wave.

 :)








 

Offline Vern

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Is the space emptyness?
« Reply #5 on: 09/02/2009 20:43:59 »
I suppose there is nothing wrong with a vision of space consisting of some sort of aether matter. The Lorentz Aether Theory was based upon that. But that idea is not necessary; no property of any extra matter in space enters into any arithmetic you care to perform to describe nature.

So most folks now just think of space as an empty void. I think there's a view that fluctuations can sputter matter in and out of the void; this as long as the matter doesn't remain out too long :)

There is a natural thing in nature that Newton found out. No force is required to keep a thing in motion; only to put a thing in motion. It is called inertia.  All material things have it.

« Last Edit: 09/02/2009 20:56:36 by Vern »
 

Offline yor_on

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Is the space emptyness?
« Reply #6 on: 10/02/2009 15:48:01 »
Hei-Tai you are making the assumption of seeing the rocket and its propulsion as one 'system' here.
It's not.

As soon at the fuel explodes it will be a 'force' of its own.
That force will 'push' on the rocket at the same time as it seeks a way out from the engine.
On the other tentacle, if you by 'pure emptiness' means that nothing exists except that rocket?

Then there is no way to measure any movement except the 'gravity well' created by acceleration at the 'back' of your rocket.

------

For your idea to be true you would need a 'negating' force outside your rocket that sort of 'sucked up' all that energy, so that those explosions created by the fuel had only one way to go. And that would be the equivalent of a 'black hole' 'eating/directing' that energy as soon as it was released.
« Last Edit: 10/02/2009 16:03:13 by yor_on »
 

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Is the space emptyness?
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