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Author Topic: Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...  (Read 10393 times)

Offline latebind

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Re: Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #25 on: 19/02/2009 13:56:08 »
I will certainly have a good look at that!
 

Offline Vern

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Re: Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #26 on: 19/02/2009 15:24:22 »
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I will certainly have a good look at that!
Good; we might be able to find an all invasive property of electromagnetic fields that can permeate all matter :)
 

Offline latebind

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Re: Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #27 on: 24/02/2009 18:55:38 »
Your theory on a photon only universe looks nice, it could work.

With regard to gravity, I would like to propose a 'to-be-discussed' method on how it might be working.
(I hope I get this right, let me know where I can improve it, ok?)

Ok, so if we say everything is made up of photons, then how does gravity work in this world?

My belief is that it would be a similar effect to Aura theory, I'll explain in the reference frame of a photon only universe.

When an object emits energy, this energy must be in the form of photons. We already know that photons travel as a wave until they are consumed at which point they change into a particle.

My belief is that when the wave is consumed and changes into a particle, it must have a very small effect on the object that emitted it(kind of like particle pairs that can change their spin instantly). This effect "IS" what we call gravity, and there can be a number of different possible ways in which this is caused, I shall discuss this later...

First of all, before we discuss the ways that photons changing from wave to particle affect the emitting object, we must look at the bigger picture and see if this is in fact logical.

My view is a simple one, the larger and closer the object that your photon waves crash into, the more particles will be consumed, and hence a larger effect on the emitting object,and a larger force of gravity.

Gravity is usually associated with the mass of an object, but einstein proved that mass and energy are equivalent, so gravity could just as well be caused by the energy emitted.


So what I am really saying is that when an apple falls from a tree, the photon waves facing earth are getting consumed very rapidly and causing a rapid acceleration of the apple. The photon waves not facing earth, well they just go into space. What is important here is that when the photons get consumed they must cause some kind of kinetic energy transfer to the apple.(probably happening on the side facing away from earth (ie an acceleration from behind like an engine)) 

Possible mechanisms of photon gravity

1 - Antiphoton

-It is possible that as a photon wave gets consumed and turns into a photon particle, it creates an antiphoton on the exact opposite side of the object that emitted the photon wave. This antiphoton particle might somehow cause the emitting object to move in the direction of the object which consumed its waves.  (maybe by annihilating a random photon immediately on the opposite side of the emitting object, Or by affecting  relativity and causing the deep pits in spacetime that einstein predicted, only this time an incline is seen on the opposite side of the emitting object as opposed to a decline on the facing side of the emitting object).

2 - Conservation of photon energy
This is a strange one, but it essentially implies that as a photon wave gets consumed by the consuming object, it converts to kinetic energy on the emitting object. Similar to antiphoton, but this time there is just a pure energy transfer, and no antiphotons around. I believe that when one energy gets converted to another that it does not have to happen in the same location, it might happen lightyears away for all we know :) , and it has been proven that quantum messages get sent much faster than the speed of light(as with particle spin pairs changing spin instantly). In fact some believe up to 10 million times faster.

I might add one or 2 more in the next few days...














« Last Edit: 24/02/2009 19:18:32 by latebind »
 

Offline Vern

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Re: Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #28 on: 24/02/2009 19:54:28 »
That's interesting speculation; I guess it is as good as what I've done so far. My first pass was to consider the saturation property of photons as the seat of gravity. A photon's central point would reach saturation at an offset toward increasing field strength of other photons.
 

Offline itisus

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Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #29 on: 01/03/2009 02:49:44 »
A note on Antigravity, and Dark Energy
First is that the universe's acceleration is a byproduct of antigravity left over from the big bang, possibly due to a massive antigravity source that lies at the centre of the universe.

Secondly it is equally  possible that there is a strong electromagnetic field surrounding the universe, left over from the big bang as well and everything is being attracted towards it.


There is no "center" of the universe.  At least there is no remotely sensible hypothesis that includes one.  And if there were, it would not be close enough to have any effect or we could detect it.

If the universe had an edge, it would also be too distant to have any effect or we could detect it.  Either a center or an edge would produce a violation of general relativity.
 

Offline latebind

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Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #30 on: 01/03/2009 17:42:30 »
A note on Antigravity, and Dark Energy
First is that the universe's acceleration is a byproduct of antigravity left over from the big bang, possibly due to a massive antigravity source that lies at the centre of the universe.

Secondly it is equally  possible that there is a strong electromagnetic field surrounding the universe, left over from the big bang as well and everything is being attracted towards it.


There is no "center" of the universe.  At least there is no remotely sensible hypothesis that includes one.  And if there were, it would not be close enough to have any effect or we could detect it.

If the universe had an edge, it would also be too distant to have any effect or we could detect it.  Either a center or an edge would produce a violation of general relativity.

The centre of the universe is real.
Just because we dont have the technology to see the centre of the universe it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Also since everything is expanding outwards, many scientists believe that if we trace this expansion backwards we will find the centre. And when we do find the centre it will probably be a white hole.

This is according to M-theory(membrane theory) that predicts our universe as a soap bubble, and we are created by a split in another universe, caused by a black hole. The black hole resides in our parent universe, but all the matter that goes in gets pushed out the other side through a white hole, which is a "large antigravity source", and this is predicted to be found according to M-theory.
« Last Edit: 01/03/2009 17:44:14 by latebind »
 

lyner

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Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #31 on: 01/03/2009 22:02:51 »
Discussing a centre and an edge to the Universe is a Gross Oversimplification of the whole thing. Why should there be either?

Black Holes are not necessarily very massive - there are probably millions and millions of them. How would one of them cause the whole Universe to form?
 

Offline latebind

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Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #32 on: 05/03/2009 21:30:02 »
That is how M-theory works.We live in a multiverse according to the theory. Black holes expel matter out the other end, creating a new bubble universe. Like when a soap bubble splits in half.

BTW there is a TNS podcast named "Naked_Scientists_Show_05.01.30.mp3" , it is on the website somewhere. It has an interview with a scientist talking about M-Theory.
 

Offline lightarrow

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Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #33 on: 16/09/2009 12:48:49 »
Suppose you have two identical, sealed sandtimers. These are identical in every way, from the number of grains to the number of atoms and particles in each sandtimer, and the placement of all other particles is identical in every way.
Not possible, it violates Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

Quote
Now, you flip both of these over at exactly the same nanosecond and watch the grains fall through.

Do you think that each timer would have the exact same grain(s) falling through at any given time?
Do you think that both sand timers would be perfectly synchronized in every single possible way?


My belief is that the answer is 'NO' to both questions.( I suggest chaos theory or a sort of entropy at work here)

So if we consider the experiment before us :

-Both sandtimers are identical in every way, down to the last particle
Not possible for the reason up. If you made them with greater and simpler grains, for example little steel balls, then they would be synchronized, in the limits of experimental errors of measure.
« Last Edit: 16/09/2009 22:40:24 by lightarrow »
 

Offline Vern

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Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #34 on: 17/09/2009 20:07:28 »
I think the sandtimer experiment wouldn't work even in classic theory (absent Heisenberg). As soon as the experiment starts the two timers will experience different electromagnetic fluctuations in the space they occupy. The differences will be amplified through time and the timers will gradually drift apart.

You might have better luck counting state changes in caesium atoms. But, even then, you can never get exactly the same experience for each atom.

 
 

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Quantum Mechanics and Gravity...
« Reply #34 on: 17/09/2009 20:07:28 »

 

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