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Author Topic: What is electricity and magnetic field?  (Read 9197 times)

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« on: 15/02/2009 17:27:16 »
 :)


I have thinking question " What is electric current?" Wire,,,,lead electric current flow. When electric current dont flow wire construction is stable. When current flow,,,,i make question to my self.



When current flow, is the construction of this wire?;

C. With in,,means that do electric current push the construction of wire?
B. Go-between,,means that do electric current to jump atom to atom?
A. or canal,,,means that is the electric current flow that kind of small material flow which flow through wire,,,without using any kind of wire atoms.

Sorry my english,,i hope that you understand my question?

And magnetic-field?

My thought is that when electric flow through wire this motion "hits" wire-construction and then some matter particles fly out from wire,,,and that is the so called magnetic field.

 :)
« Last Edit: 15/02/2009 17:32:39 by Hei-Tai »


 

lyner

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #1 on: 15/02/2009 19:17:12 »
The conduction electrons in a metal are de-localised. That means that no individual electron 'belongs' to any atom, in particular. When a current flows, the conduction electrons all drift (very slowly - mms per second).  A very small amonunt of energy is used up as they move through the lattice but that is the loss which we identify as Resistance.
 

Offline allien

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #2 on: 15/02/2009 20:44:01 »
Electric current is defined as opposite of electron movement.
It could be say the mixture of A and B .

Jump From atom to atom nearly light speed and outher surface of the wire.

The electron entering the wire is not the electron leaving from another side.

This is all from my remembrance, could be wrong.
 

lyner

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #3 on: 16/02/2009 16:47:09 »
Electric current is defined as opposite of electron movement.
It could be say the mixture of A and B .

Jump From atom to atom nearly light speed and outher surface of the wire.

The electron entering the wire is not the electron leaving from another side.

This is all from my remembrance, could be wrong.
Where did you get the idea of 'light speed' jumps?
Look in wikkers to find out about electron drift speed - it's all there and there's not much doubt about what I wrote.
I think your  idea of conduction being mainly on the surface refers to Alternating Current flow; because of the induced magnetic and electric fields changing with the alternations, the current occupies a 'skin' near the surface. The electrons, themselves, hardly do more than 'wobble' a bit, backwards and forwards.

Hei-Tai
Why not look at a book or in wikkers for some in-depth ideas of conventional Physics. You could then come up with some better informed questions which might speed up your learning.
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #4 on: 16/02/2009 18:00:33 »
The conduction electrons in a metal are de-localised. That means that no individual electron 'belongs' to any atom, in particular. When a current flows, the conduction electrons all drift (very slowly - mms per second).  A very small amonunt of energy is used up as they move through the lattice but that is the loss which we identify as Resistance.

 :)

So if i think right you mean that A+C,,,C means that drift and loss means that A.

What is you opinion about that magnetic-field idea?
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #5 on: 16/02/2009 18:04:22 »
Electric current is defined as opposite of electron movement.
It could be say the mixture of A and B .

Jump From atom to atom nearly light speed and outher surface of the wire.

The electron entering the wire is not the electron leaving from another side.

This is all from my remembrance, could be wrong.

 :)
So you means that jump atom-atom B and some-amount fly out of wire A and make magnetic-field?

Then magnetic field is some kind of matter-flow-process?

What happens if wire is empty? Electricity current dont flow?

 :)



 

Offline allien

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #6 on: 16/02/2009 21:46:11 »
Even electron moves slowly, the electricity (energy) moves nearly light speed.
Because the electron entering the wire is not the electron leaving from another side.

So electricity travels at c, while electrons do not.
 

lyner

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #7 on: 16/02/2009 23:23:13 »
I me
The conduction electrons in a metal are de-localised. That means that no individual electron 'belongs' to any atom, in particular. When a current flows, the conduction electrons all drift (very slowly - mms per second).  A very small amonunt of energy is used up as they move through the lattice but that is the loss which we identify as Resistance.

 :)

So if i think right you mean that A+C,,,C means that drift and loss means that A.

What is you opinion about that magnetic-field idea?
I mean what happens is as it's described in all the text books. None of your  three alternative  views are in agreement with that. Is there any point in saying where they are at variance? As I said before, I suggest that you read a book to find out what goes on. You will save time in the long run.
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #8 on: 18/02/2009 18:03:59 »
 :)

Magnet test.

Magnet and needlework wire. I keep wire on my finger and let magnet suck the needle. When needle goes near magnet i notice next.



Needle start to turn clock-wice,,like screw or spiral. I notice that same magnet-screw was other side of magnet.

So my opinion is that magnet-thing make matter-flow process where matter flow through magnet. And center of both end where needle is there is matter-spriral like tornado,,matter flow in the magnet center and rotate like tornado.
How i say,,some kind of matter-flow-tornado or matter screw thread.

My question is;

How magnet-material can put matter-particles to flow through itself that kind of way?

 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #9 on: 18/02/2009 18:09:13 »
 :)

Continue the same test.



My opinion is that smaal particle matter flow goes through magnet that way.

Both end center come matter-flow and fly out middle of magnet rod.

What i mean;
Magnet-thing is always some kind of matter-flow-process and magnet-rod example cause some how motion-process of those small-matter-particles and when those small particles start to flow then all iron-material start to go with this flow.

 

lyner

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #10 on: 18/02/2009 19:40:51 »
You are entitled to your opinion but are you saying that the text books have just got it wrong? That could be a bit presumptious. Would you, for instance, have any numerical data to support your idea?
Where does your 'matter' come from  and how does it get replenished? Magnets don't get lighter with age.
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #11 on: 19/02/2009 19:38:49 »

Would you, for instance, have any numerical data to support your idea?

Where does your 'matter' come from  and how does it get replenished?

Magnets don't get lighter with age.

 :)

I dont need numerical data of that idea because i,,hmm. how i say,,,see it. If you want numerical data you can start to calculate.

Matter is round of magnet and magnet has some how that kind of hmm.material construction that it cause that matter-flow through it.

And i think that matter particle size is much smaller than we says how big electron is,,much smaller than we think that photon is. Why i think so? Because photon is smaller than electron but photon born at sun and fire,,,photon is secondary matter-state and there is smaller matter particles type which i call that it is that true basic matter.


- atom-thory give us idea of some size level matter particle
- photon is smaller level matter particle size
- and basic matter is smaller



Left matter-size cone.
bottom             = basic matter exist all of the universe every place
next size level    = so called photon size = born heat and light (also that electric charge perhaps)
third size level   = atom-theory level size
fourth size level  = iron, copper, etc.
fift size          = human cell, genes, etc.

Magnet put this basic matter some how to flow through it.

But like i mention my test with needle,,i think question,,,why this needle rotate,,,why there is both end of magnet that matter-rotating-current, magnet-screw.

Techical possibilityes; Magnet motor?

 :)



 


 
 

lyner

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #12 on: 22/02/2009 22:05:22 »
I'm afraid that's nonsense.
 

Offline Vern

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #13 on: 23/02/2009 03:21:00 »
Maybe there's something lost in the translation. There seems to be a vision there. I'm not sure it is a correct vision, but I would like to understand the vision. So I will continue to follow this thread and not relegate it to the trash heap just yet :)
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #14 on: 23/02/2009 09:39:28 »
I'm afraid that's nonsense.

 :)

I'm not afraid. I write and paint only that what is my opinion to my research doings.

My thoughts are clear.

This link the basic idea.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=20289.0

My point is that space is full of matter and therefore can happend example next things.
- radiowaves can travell and so called magnet-fields can exist
- vehicles can travell
- planets can travell and be join together
- sun can make photons and heat like camp-fire

There is lot of todays science-ideas whose basic is empty space.
- magnetfield exist without matter
- radiowaves travell pure emptyness
- photon is massless-
- space-vehicles dont need anti-force(jump-force)
- planets join together something unknown gravity-wire
- etc.

Hmm,,thruth this world and things is much more what we cannot see yet,,,hmm. perhaps someone can. [:I]

But,,this thread,,,why and what cause that rotating-effect of that needle?


 :)
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #15 on: 23/02/2009 09:42:28 »
Maybe there's something lost in the translation. There seems to be a vision there. I'm not sure it is a correct vision, but I would like to understand the vision. So I will continue to follow this thread and not relegate it to the trash heap just yet :)

 :)

Thanks vern your opinion,,,many scientist are like hmm.others,,,,,absolute right that existing data,,,so that reading data make brain and maind and dividing-thought control us,,us also,,so it is hard to walk middle-path,,thanks,,if you make same test like i make this magnet-needle test,,you get my question,,matter-flow somehow.

Must remember that electricity-magnet ideas was born 1500-1800 centuryes and 1900 centuryes dont come nothing new basic-idea,,so what is electricity and what is magnet-field,,that is unknown area at deepest matter-level.

Amazing is that atom-theory tell partly us that electricity must be some kind of matter-particle motion,,,but still many believe that electricity-magnetfield is not matter thing.

 :)
« Last Edit: 23/02/2009 09:47:01 by Hei-Tai »
 

lyner

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #16 on: 23/02/2009 17:07:14 »
Maybe there's something lost in the translation. There seems to be a vision there. I'm not sure it is a correct vision, but I would like to understand the vision. So I will continue to follow this thread and not relegate it to the trash heap just yet :)
Verne:
Perhaps there is some loss. But it is asking a lot for us all to learn a new common language for discussing these things. There is a certain acceptable minimum of ability to communicate before presenting any brand new (?) idea. If someone wants to introduce new theories then they cannot expect to have them taken seriously if they don't use common terms in the accepted way. If the theory is worth its salt, it is worth while translating it properly.

I think you are being, politely, over generous about a very flimsy structure. Where is the Science?
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #17 on: 24/02/2009 07:00:18 »

Where is the Science?

 :)

I'm not scientist, i have born year -57,,read many things,,,my longest work-area was have electricity-thing, maintenance, design, etc,,over 20 years,,i dont speak and write english not so good and  therefore i use drawings with my text. I dont have any back-round of my thoughts,,i say and wrote just i think things is. If this is not science then it is not. But i continue my work.

Next image show my test.



When i move needle closer magnet or coil same effect happend,,,needle start to rotate,,so magnet-screw exist.
I dont know why and how.

Next image show balance.



I put in the coil to different iron-thing (A,B),,,both case this iron-thing goes middle of center-coil.

So,,this magnet-flow pull this iron to it's mass-centerpoint.

Therefore my test proved that there is some kind of matter-flow which comes in both end of magnet/coil and come out center.

I dont see any kind of error on my test?

 :)





« Last Edit: 24/02/2009 07:08:03 by Hei-Tai »
 

Offline allien

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #18 on: 24/02/2009 12:06:34 »
Quote
So,,this magnet-flow pull this iron to it's mass-centerpoint.

length center or mass center? Do you have this kind of experiment.

My theory is based on particle too. So I am similar idea like yours. I always think natural magnets as pumps.
What they pump?
Some tiny particles (maybe electrino and positrino).
How?
like electron emitters, some atoms pull tiny particles from one side and push it from different side.
Why?
Because of Osilation of (positive and negative) quarks in nucleons depending lattice structure of atoms.
Do I have solid prof?
Of course NO. [B)]    
Do we need to stop thinking?
Of course NO. Fisrt we must have an idea before prove (disprove) it with science. [:o)] So math and experiments could come later, this must not be problem. [^]

 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #19 on: 24/02/2009 18:04:21 »
Quote
So,,this magnet-flow pull this iron to it's mass-centerpoint.

length center or mass center? Do you have this kind of experiment.




 :)

Mass-center,,,i test it.

 :)
 

lyner

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #20 on: 24/02/2009 21:19:17 »
Hei Tai
 Why not join a forum in your own language~? Your readers could then understand you better.
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #21 on: 25/02/2009 18:05:34 »
Hei Tai
 Why not join a forum in your own language~? Your readers could then understand you better.

 :)

My home language is so small amount of peopple that there is not so many scientific interesting human,,so if you dont mind i prefer try to speak english,,(learn same time english) draw universal language and of cource,,this forum has many scientifical thinking peopple so conversation is quite fruitfull.

Else if you dont have any other reasons that you want me to end this conversation,,,if it,,,then tell that directly,,, of cource i then goes out this forum,,,i dont want that anybody get bad feeling? [:-'(]

 :)

 

lyner

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #22 on: 25/02/2009 22:31:06 »
It's just such terribly hard work to decide whether you are talking sense or nonsense.  Some of it is quite entertaining.
Btw, what is your native language?
 

Offline Hei-Tai

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #23 on: 26/02/2009 06:40:38 »
It's just such terribly hard work to decide whether you are talking sense or nonsense.  Some of it is quite entertaining.
Btw, what is your native language?

 :)
Hmm,,, sense/nonsense,,,how i say,,,,you dont need to decide that,,,,,dont load your mind of that issue,,,,2100 centuryes scientist write history and see better what we think today and what was sense/non-sense.

If todays scient-data all amount is 100% then 50-100% can be sense/nonsense of that data,,if we believe that old 1600-1900 centuryes theoryes are final science-data,,story to our world,, then this kind of conversation-forums are not so necessary.

Scient goes forward when scient-peopple make new questions,,are interesting,,and hmm, dont believe automatically like learned robot all stuff what comes to past through our hmm,,teachers. [^]

Mathematics philosophy [:o)]
1+1=2 but 0+1=1 and 0+0=0
but 1-2 is not -1 because 0 and below dont exist.

Native language,, hmm. [?] scientifical question,,,,how we can analyze internet text-drawings what is the home-language of writer?

 :)



 

lyner

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
« Reply #24 on: 26/02/2009 11:10:46 »
I don't think you are for real.
You are "havin a larf" as they say.
It is all nonsense.
 

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What is electricity and magnetic field?
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