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Author Topic: Tragic reaction to prescription drug  (Read 18775 times)

Offline BenV

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« Reply #25 on: 03/03/2009 11:42:15 »
I really like Charlotte Church !
Cheers Neil, I think we needed that!


I will talk to you later neilep.

On a lighter note as the newscaster would say I like Charlotte Church too ,but her pop singing has failed for me as it seems to be highly contrived and not spontaneous.

Unfortunately she has put on considerable weight since I saw her last time on television indicating a solidly built frame.
I think she's had a couple of children, so I think a bit of weight gain is fair.  And she's not exactly obese, is she?

Strange how this feeds into Paul's post above - people are so judgemental about appearances, and this creates the pressure he was referring to.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #26 on: 03/03/2009 13:09:46 »
Quote
On a lighter note as the newscaster would say I like Charlotte Church too ,but her pop singing has failed for me as it seems to be highly contrived and not spontaneous.

Since when has pop music not been contrived? I was in the music business for years and that was always the case. Pop music has always been produced to maximise sales. As such it is formulaic and aimed at the lowest common demoninator.

And as for her having put on weight - so what? Does that affect her singing? What about Pavarotti? He was rather large. Or Alison Moyet? The Weather Girls? The truth is that Charlotte Church's voice just isn't really suited to pop music. She's too good. Very few operatically trained singers can sing pop music; Russell Watson being a notable exception.

Anyway, being fat is her own fault for being with a rugby player. And for being Welsh - too many leek & potato pies!  :P
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #27 on: 03/03/2009 19:54:24 »
Isn't it a pity that people are so obsessed with body image that they are prepared to take potentially dangerous drugs to "treat" a perfectly normal aspect of the human condition?
True, though I understand things like acne can have far reaching mental implications, as the associated loss of confidence can lead to social difficulties, and then depression.
As far as I can tell that's part of the same problem. If society realised that there are more important things to worry about than spots the "victims" of acne could just get on with their lives.
BTW, Charlote Church is a perfectly fine example of humanity, but I prefer Myleen Klass.
It's mildly interesting to note that
1 they are both female singers.
2 They are both mothers and
3 they are both spectacularly unlikely to be interested in me.
 

Offline DrN

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« Reply #28 on: 03/03/2009 21:51:30 »
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Oh dear. I often comment on people from Norfolk being inbred but that doesn't mean I discriminate against them.

Objection! We're not all inbred, just most of us  ;D
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #29 on: 03/03/2009 21:58:41 »
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Oh dear. I often comment on people from Norfolk being inbred but that doesn't mean I discriminate against them.

Objection! We're not all inbred, just most of us  ;D

 

Offline DrN

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« Reply #30 on: 03/03/2009 22:04:42 »
I spend my time writing scientific and promotional material for pharma companies. I can absolutely guarantee that nothing gets approved by the FDA (US) and EMEA (EU) without absolutely insane amounts of safety data. These things are tested rigourously through multiple phases of clinical trials, and it doesn't stop post-marketing either. Occasionally new side-effects do come to light, especially where a drug starts to be used for more and more indications.

And when it comes to listing side effects, they must all be listed, even where its not conclusive if it was caused by the drug or by some other confounding factor. There are so many variables when taking a drug, sometimes even down to what you eat and what genes you own, that its absolutely impossible for all side-effects to be predicted.

Furthermore, pharma companies are bound not only by law, which is extememly stringent to put it mildly, they must also abide by the pharmaceutical companies code of practice, called the ABPI in the UK. They can't just 'promote' a drug, not even to doctors and pharmacists. There are restrictions on what words you can use, in what context, when you can use them, and to whom in all adverts, articles, sales material etc etc etc.

Yes, of course pharma companies are out to make money, thats what we all go to work to do after all, but to make them out as greedy evil corporations is just plain ridiculous. You could say the same (or even worse) for sweet manufacturers, or cigarette companies. At least pharma co's are trying to make people well!
 

Offline DrN

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« Reply #31 on: 03/03/2009 22:05:36 »
Quote


You found a picture of me!
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #32 on: 03/03/2009 22:21:34 »
Quote


You found a picture of me!

I thought it was your twin sister  :P
 

Offline DrN

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« Reply #33 on: 03/03/2009 22:43:18 »
At least you got the sex right - can't be that bad then  ;D
 

Offline NobodySavedMe

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« Reply #34 on: 04/03/2009 22:54:09 »
I spend my time writing scientific and promotional material for pharma companies. I can absolutely guarantee that nothing gets approved by the FDA (US) and EMEA (EU) without absolutely insane amounts of safety data. These things are tested rigourously through multiple phases of clinical trials, and it doesn't stop post-marketing either. Occasionally new side-effects do come to light, especially where a drug starts to be used for more and more indications.

And when it comes to listing side effects, they must all be listed, even where its not conclusive if it was caused by the drug or by some other confounding factor. There are so many variables when taking a drug, sometimes even down to what you eat and what genes you own, that its absolutely impossible for all side-effects to be predicted.

Furthermore, pharma companies are bound not only by law, which is extememly stringent to put it mildly, they must also abide by the pharmaceutical companies code of practice, called the ABPI in the UK. They can't just 'promote' a drug, not even to doctors and pharmacists. There are restrictions on what words you can use, in what context, when you can use them, and to whom in all adverts, articles, sales material etc etc etc.

Yes, of course pharma companies are out to make money, thats what we all go to work to do after all, but to make them out as greedy evil corporations is just plain ridiculous. You could say the same (or even worse) for sweet manufacturers, or cigarette companies. At least pharma co's are trying to make people well!

You seem to be unaware of the recent fraud where drug companies were using their own employees to review their own drugs or in some they were adding the names of prominant researchers and mailing them $5000 to $50000 cheques for "permission" to use their name.

Hardly impartial reviews as you claim.


In any case today Professor Micheal Oliver confirmed that doctors were being negligent and using tick boxes to inflate their own salaries by prescribing these drugs.

 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #35 on: 05/03/2009 08:52:24 »
NSM- can you cite any references for your claims? If not, then I suggest you stop making them.
 

Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #36 on: 05/03/2009 08:59:55 »
no proof = no credibility
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #37 on: 05/03/2009 09:04:18 »
Good morning/afternoon/evening/night*, Damo

*delete as appropriate.
 

Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #38 on: 05/03/2009 09:07:56 »
Good evening, DB, how are you?

 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #39 on: 05/03/2009 09:25:42 »
I am in fine fettle, thank you for asking. But we should keep general chitchat in the Just Chat section or run the risk of being berated by a moderator
 

Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #40 on: 05/03/2009 09:31:44 »
oh yes, very true...

if I can go back on topic

Just to reiterate, anyone who makes a claim of any kind ought to give a resource proving it or else it has no credibility
 

Offline BenV

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« Reply #41 on: 05/03/2009 09:34:06 »
no proof = no credibility
NSM has no credibility anyway - s/he wears his/her biases on his/her sleeve, and is known to fall for propaganda.
 

Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #42 on: 05/03/2009 09:38:52 »
thus negative credibility?
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #43 on: 05/03/2009 09:43:39 »
I went on a mission once to find information on a certain dubious theory on the internet. There are probably those here who will remember this particular episode. It was to do with a theory proposed by a dodgy Nigerian scientist who claimed that "Doctor Beaver from Cambridge University has endorsed my theory".

I found lots of sites concerned with this theory, and its proposer, but also managed to track them all back to a single source. The person concerned had merely started multiple sites spouting the same rubbish so that he could say that there were many verifying his claims.

Largely as a result of that I now only pay any heed to information on "reputable" sites. So, when citations are given I am still dubious unless I know the source is reliable.
 

Offline NobodySavedMe

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« Reply #44 on: 05/03/2009 09:47:25 »
ok.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2009 10:03:03 by NobodySavedMe »
 

Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #45 on: 05/03/2009 09:50:20 »
Which references would you consider as reputable?
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #46 on: 05/03/2009 09:59:58 »
Naturalnews is 1 of those anti-pharma, Natural Health fanatical sites. Nowhere in that article does it say how the information came to light.

Another article from that site is "How the FDA is Becoming a Drug Company: Consumer Safety and Access to Natural Health Options Threatened"

By the look of it, it's basically not much more than yet another conspiracy site.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #47 on: 05/03/2009 10:01:14 »
Which references would you consider as reputable?

That's a good question which I shall address when I've made coffee.
 

Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #48 on: 05/03/2009 10:02:04 »
conspiracy sites have no credibiity unless they can prove their claims
 

Offline NobodySavedMe

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« Reply #49 on: 05/03/2009 10:02:08 »
Naturalnews is 1 of those anti-pharma, Natural Health fanatical sites. Nowhere in that article does it say how the information came to light.

Another article from that site is "How the FDA is Becoming a Drug Company: Consumer Safety and Access to Natural Health Options Threatened"

By the look of it, it's basically not much more than yet another conspiracy site.

Journal of the American Medical Association here . too?
 

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« Reply #49 on: 05/03/2009 10:02:08 »

 

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