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Author Topic: Tragic reaction to prescription drug  (Read 18760 times)

Offline NobodySavedMe

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Tragic reaction to prescription drug
« Reply #50 on: 05/03/2009 10:04:01 »
oh yes, very true...

if I can go back on topic

Just to reiterate, anyone who makes a claim of any kind ought to give a resource proving it or else it has no credibility

oh yes, very true...

if I can go back on topic

Just to reiterate, anyone who makes a claim of any kind ought to give a resource proving it or else it has no credibility

http://www.naturalnews.com/023074.html

"The discovery that drug companies have been ghostwriting scientific studies using in-house writers, then paying (bribing) doctors and high-level academics to pretend they were the author of the article is making shockwaves across conventional medicine. This latest revelation of scientific fraud exposes a massive, widespread system of fraud involving not only the drug companies, but also hundreds of different peer-reviewed, "scientific" medical journals that have published these ghostwritten articles. This scam is the latest embarrassment to conventional medicine...."


or you can try ghost writing big pharma in google...loads of articles from reputable papers...

here is another source:-

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/12/12/grassley-probes-medical-ghostwriting-by-wyeth/


Sen. Charles Grassley, investigating instances of “medical ghostwriting,” has asked drugmaker Wyeth for information about whether it helped draft papers about the company’s hormone therapy products and recruited doctors to sign articles for medical journals.

grassley wyeth letter pdfGrassley, who has been

Grassley asks Wyeth for a list of all scientific reports or manuscripts prepared by DesignWrite since 1995. He also wants info on payments to DesignWrite as well as doctors whose names are published as authors of the studies.

In other words drugs are approved on ghost written articles by authors working for the company...and passed of as real doctors.

here is another one from the New York Times:-

http://stanford.wellsphere.com/bioethics-article/big-pharma-gets-caught-ghostwriting/150328

"From the NYT comes the news that Merck flacks were the real authors of "dozens of research studies" on Vioxx that were then shopped around to name-brand physicians. ( WaPo reports as well, here .) Presumably, docs who agreed received some kind of compensation--even if it was just another publication, which is the currency of academic science--for adding their names to the papers and submitting them to journals for peer review and publication. You can read the source article from the Journal of the American Medical Association here .



What's the big deal? Well, for starters, there's the potential for conflict of interest when a drug manufacturer (or anyone else) writes up positive research results about a product in which they have a financial interest. Disclosing such interests is the usual "solution." In this case, there wasn't just non-disclosure; rather, there seem to have been purposeful steps to make it appear as though Merck wasn't involved. Moreover, from the standpoint of research ethics, it's not kosher for people to attach their names to papers they had no role in writing, or research they weren't involved in.


The news also raises the question of whether the research results reported are, in fact, valid and trustworthy. Journal articles are the primary way the medical community learns about...."
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #51 on: 05/03/2009 10:14:37 »
You didn't draw much attention to this bit from the article:

in New Jersey, Judge Jamie Happas, who is overseeing all hormone therapy litigation in that state, said in an opinion commenting on some of the same articles addressed by Senator Grassley: ‘There is no dispute that the articles were subject to a rigorous peer review process and were factually and medically sound.’

Or this:

Similarly, Judge William Wilson, overseeing the federal hormone therapy litigation, concluded that there was no evidence that Wyeth supported articles that we knew were false or misrepresented the science. He noted that plaintiff’s own expert witness conceded that she had engaged in the practice of working with pharmaceutical company on an article herself.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2009 10:17:28 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #52 on: 05/03/2009 10:26:12 »
Back to the question asked of me.

There are some journals whose reputability is beyond question as they have, for many years, proved themselves honest. I would include Nature, New Scientist, and many professional body journals such as Psychology Today or the journal of the APA.

There are also newspapers such as The Times and The Independent in the UK that, in the main, publish good, honest copy.

Websites such as Space.com are also reliable.

The problem is that many less reliable organisations have very professional-looking websites and the articles are written in ways that mimic those of more reputable organisations. These are sometimes hard to spot at first glance and it is easy to be misled into believing that what is written there is indisputable fact. It is only when you start cross-checking that fallacies can come to light.

Unfortunately I do not have the time to cross-check everything so I take a somewhat cynical view of anything written on sites that I am not sure about.
 

Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #53 on: 05/03/2009 10:32:38 »
I also share a very cynical view about resources.  I do cross check everything, and I mean everything.

I am an unapologetic skeptic of most things conspiracy.  At this stage, I do not believe any conspiracy theory- this is despite looking into them quite deeply.

The reason is simple, back when I was not a skeptic, I got burned and burned badly - to which I have both not recovered but remain weary.
 

Offline NobodySavedMe

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« Reply #54 on: 11/03/2009 23:22:51 »
Thanks - I had also sought it out for you.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090225/tuk-teen-dies-after-taking-acne-pills-dba1618.html

.

There's a news story that puts a very different angle on it than you decided to do.  He suffered an acute reaction to a commonly prescribed drug, a bit like an allergy.  As he had never taken the drug before, how could anyone have known that he would react like this?  Should everyone be allergy tested prior to taking any common substance?  Thousands of others take these drugs without this reaction.

It's nonsense to imply that the doctor should be punished - should parents be punished when they first discover their child has a peanut allergy?  What if it leads to the child's death?  By your logic, the parents would be to blame.

And what has him being Welsh got to do with it?  This was a tradgedy, pure and simple, yet you have to bring xenophobia into it?

Shaun Jones a healthy 14 year old was killed by a doctors prescription for acne 5 days ago.

No, he wasn't.  He died as a result of an unfortunate reaction to a very common prescription medication.

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The doctor has been held blameless by the doctors council.This is a classic case of doctors protecting their own.

On account of him doing nothing wrong.

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The medication came with no warnings that it could kill.

This particular packet came with no warnings leaflet - it certainly should have, but that has nothing to do with the doctor who prescribed it, and the parent could have questioned it at that point.  As it happens, a list of the known side effects wouldn't have made ant difference.

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Another unfortunate reason maybe that he Welsh and the Welsh people suffer discrimination and inbred bigotry from the English.

Offensive nonsense.

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The medication called sebomin is worth $230 million in annual profit.

This may explain why there was no mainstream media publication and was confined to page 9 in a small paragraph.Clearly warnings had gone out to keep it buried.

Paranoid delusional nonsense.

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Shaun Jones was a healthy rugby player, he was popular and fun loving.

He had his whole life ahead of him.

So?  Tragic things happen to all sorts of people.

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Yet he killed by a single tablet prescribed by his doctor who never bothered to check for side effects.

How do you know?  Were you there at his consultation?  Have you thoroughly interviewed the doctor involved?  Is your paranoid delusion about pharma companies being evil leading you to conlude things that are not, in fact, true?

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One doctor I spoke to said this was nothing and that more then 200000 people are killed every year in America but the drugs are just too profitable and the media and politicians have been bribed by the deep pockets of the pharmaceutical companies.

He said they had been paid $20 billion last year.

Evidence please.

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You may have noted how the House of Lords peers were involved in a "money to change the law" scandal.

Relevance please.

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I feel very sorry for the family of Shaun Jones.To have a 14 year old son killed by a single doctors tablet...words fail me.

Finally, something we can agree on.  I too feel sorry for the family in this tragic situation.  I don't, however, seek to blame anyone.


I find it disturbing that you think the medical profession is above criticism and we should hide their dirty laundary and bury their mistakes.

Here is another of their mistakes:-

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/88711/Boy-dies-of-cancer-after-doc-told-grow-up-

A boy with cancer was dismissed as having mental issues after seeing his doctor 6 times when he had cancer.

Even though it was visable on his chest.A second doctor at the hospital failed also.His blood tests were dismissed.


Is this why we are paying these "doctors" £250000 a year for?

Maybe they are being rewarded for failure instead success just like bankers.

He is dead now but could have been treated and cured if the incompetant doctor had done his job for which he is paid a kings ransom.
 
We can only wait for the excuses you will come up with to excuse his incompetance.
« Last Edit: 11/03/2009 23:28:30 by NobodySavedMe »
 

Offline BenV

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« Reply #55 on: 11/03/2009 23:47:21 »
I find it disturbing that you think the medical profession is above criticism and we should hide their dirty laundary and bury their mistakes.

Here is another of their mistakes:-

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/88711/Boy-dies-of-cancer-after-doc-told-grow-up-

A boy with cancer was dismissed as having mental issues after seeing his doctor 6 times when he had cancer.

Even though it was visable on his chest.A second doctor at the hospital failed also.His blood tests were dismissed.


Is this why we are paying these "doctors" £250000 a year for?

Maybe they are being rewarded for failure instead success just like bankers.

He is dead now but could have been treated and cured if the incompetant doctor had done his job for which he is paid a kings ransom.
 
We can only wait for the excuses you will come up with to excuse his incompetance.

Yes, that's a tragic mistake that should be looked into.  I never said doctors were beyond reproach.

I also never said "the medical profession is above criticism and we should hide their dirty laundary and bury their mistakes" - you decided that is what I think.  This says a lot more about you than it does about me.

You may also note that this situation bears no resemblance to the original story in this thread.

"Maybe they are being rewarded for failure instead success just like bankers." - More of your delusional offensive nonsense.
 

Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #56 on: 14/03/2009 01:37:20 »
NSM - you can not dictate to people what they think.

Not everyone think in the same way as you, you have to accept that not everyone believes the same things that you, nor do people 'fit' a cast from your mindset.

Further, if people disagree with you, it does not mean at all that they are the 'enemy'.

I am sorry to say, your paranoid delusional rambling has resulted in you have absolutely no credibility with anyone here - this is not because of brainwashing, this is entirely due to your offensive and delusional ramblings.

To be honest, you come across as an online troll, deliberately and immaturely provoking responses to fulfill your addiction for attention and martyrism when you perceive that people are part of 'them'.   (yes, I realise the irony of posting that statement).

I do not know nor care as to what caused you to be so distrusting - I would have cared if you were polite and demonstrated any sensibility.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #57 on: 14/03/2009 10:28:13 »
Quote
I am sorry to say, your paranoid delusional rambling has resulted in you have absolutely no credibility with anyone here - this is not because of brainwashing, this is entirely due to your offensive and delusional ramblings.

To be honest, you come across as an online troll, deliberately and immaturely provoking responses to fulfill your addiction for attention and martyrism when you perceive that people are part of 'them'.   (yes, I realise the irony of posting that statement).

Don't beat about the bush, be blunt!  :D
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #58 on: 14/03/2009 18:25:11 »
I just wonder how much NSM thinks doctors would need to be paid to stop them making the odd mistake?
The problem is that they are human and, as such, prone to human failure.
« Last Edit: 14/03/2009 18:27:18 by Bored chemist »
 

Offline NobodySavedMe

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« Reply #59 on: 16/03/2009 00:46:59 »
NSM - you can not dictate to people what they think.

Not everyone think in the same way as you, you have to accept that not everyone believes the same things that you, nor do people 'fit' a cast from your mindset.

Further, if people disagree with you, it does not mean at all that they are the 'enemy'.


I am not dictating how you think.

That is being dictated already to you by the established entities around you.

Your failure to realize this makes you a co-operative pseudopod of these interests thus doing their bidding without realization and compounds your error.

This is called nested thinking.

I have not said you were an enemy.

I am always polite.

I am very sorry you cannot see the bigger picture.The wider perspective.


You are a unwitting victim of mendacity but you cannot help this as you are a product of your environment and vast effort would be required on your part to realize this.
« Last Edit: 16/03/2009 00:54:24 by NobodySavedMe »
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #60 on: 16/03/2009 01:24:55 »
You're talking bollocks. No, I'm not going to be polite because you have insulted everyone here, myself included.

You are delusional and paranoid (that's my professional opinion as a psychologist) and I would suggest you seek help rather than spouting your derogatory nonsense here. Had you, in the first instance, tried to state your case clearly and logically, citing informed sources, then maybe we would have more time for you. Instead you accused us of all sorts of demeaning rubbish - and even accused us of causing someone's death! Even so, we tried to reason with you and point out that you were incorrect in your assertions only to be met with a barrage of ill-informed bilge.

So do us all a favour. Run along and put your tin foil helmet back on to stop the aliens beaming rays into what in your case barely passes for a brain.
« Last Edit: 16/03/2009 01:28:10 by DoctorBeaver »
 

Offline Damo the Optics Monkey

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« Reply #61 on: 16/03/2009 09:46:39 »
NSM - all you have are your own paranoid-delusionally biased ASSumptions - you are so far from the truth with regards to me.

You accused me of contributing to the death of my uncle - something that, to be blunt and honest, has me despising you as a person.

But, as your name says, you are a nobody, just some whack-job troll name on the screen.  You'll twit this around to fit your own delusion, but who cares?

You have no influence nor authority in my life whatsoever.

No one here takes you seriously, no one at all and you did that to yourself.  You are so brainwashed by the woo-woo factions that you can't see that you are a poster boy for what you, yet again, accuse me of.

So, go back to woo-woo land with your tin hat, nobody.
 

Offline BenV

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« Reply #62 on: 16/03/2009 09:53:27 »
NobodySavedMe has now been banned.  He had been warned some time ago that his conduct was innappropriate, yet he continued to be offensive.
 

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