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Author Topic: Healthy products for a safer environment  (Read 17785 times)

Offline Karsten

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Healthy products for a safer environment
« Reply #25 on: 23/03/2009 20:53:29 »
Karsten I agree with you in that we need 'objective' supervising and longterm  testing, especcially when it comes to genetic and nanno innovations. There is a long way to go before anyone can say that they know what our genes f ex. really do. To lift forward just one gene and say that 'this gene is responsible for this' is something we seem to do often those days, and then we patent it and try it out:) but my guess is that there is a lot interconnections between genes we don't know a thing about, just as an example. and the same goes for nanno materials, at least as far as they are new combinations to nature and biological material (us:). What facility can today guarantee that they don't have any 'spill' when it comes to that size of material. The more advanced we get in our manipulations, the better our control needs to be it seems to me.

I fear that, while technology can be very safe, it is only as safe as the people who put it together or use it. It is linked to the level of caring, the level of education, and the level of funding. Any of those levels go down - the safety of the technology comes into question. Now think about our global economic down-turn. How long until we need to implement some "short-cuts" to save money? How long until people with less education become supervisors because they are less expensive? Is nuclear power (for instance) only safe in times/places of incredible prosperity?
 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #26 on: 24/03/2009 20:21:58 »
Lets get back to the original question.
"We all should encourage the use of natural and environment friendly objects at our homes and other places.  Letís stop using products that are harmful and work towards a greener and healthier environment."
In that context it doesn't matter if the "product" is natural or not. We generally ought to avoid the use of asbestos and of DDT, but we need to consider the lives saved by fireproofing and malaria control.
What doesn't matter is that asbestos comes out of a hole in the ground and DDT comes out of a chemical factory.

All the points made about the  use of technology are valid (caring, education funding etc), but they apply equally to nicotine or uranium. You can misuse anything- that's not a reason to use nothing, nor is it a reason to distinguish between "natural" and "artificial" even if we ever could find a definition of those words that we could all agree on.
 

Offline Karsten

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« Reply #27 on: 24/03/2009 22:16:50 »
Lets get back to the original question.
"We all should encourage the use of natural and environment friendly objects at our homes and other places.  Letís stop using products that are harmful and work towards a greener and healthier environment."

We can drop the discussion about natural. It does not matter in this context.

In that context it doesn't matter if the "product" is natural or not. We generally ought to avoid the use of asbestos and of DDT, but we need to consider the lives saved by fireproofing and malaria control.
What doesn't matter is that asbestos comes out of a hole in the ground and DDT comes out of a chemical factory.

The use of asbestos in products needs to be investigated as much as the use of human made chemicals as pesticides. However, asbestos is there and will stay here. Same with nicotine or uranium. It is good to leave it out of harms way, not make more of it, or put it into people's bodies, but we will not end its existence. With DDT  (or any other, possibly better example) it is different: We created it. It was not there before humans came up with it. Putting it out in the environment without looking what it would do was a mistake. The mistakes will be repeated if we do not pay attention to what we have done before. Humans developed fine with all the stuff that existed already while we were developing (I am excluding human-made materials). But we have acquired capabilities that require a much more careful approach than previously shown. Humans have astonishing abilities to create materials that have spectacular properties but unknown and/or surprising effects when out of control. While we need to take into consideration the effects of any material, we need to pay extra attention to materials that are new to the environment. We do not know enough and we rush into things with great excitement and may find out too late that it had been a mistake. We plan to do much better (I hope and believe) when extraterrestrial microorganisms are suspected. We don't know what could be and fear the worst. It is similar if I want to bring certain items into the USA from Canada (or the other way). I have to prove that it is harmless. If it was ever implanted in either county's soil, it most likely won't pass the border.
Industrial production has often been allowed to take the opposite approach and is helped by our definition of economic success: If harm is not proven - it is harmless. When harm is suspected, those who are harmed have to prove it. Short-term benefits for a few "friends" outweigh long-term damage for many "strangers" or those who will be effected later. Maybe that is where the problem lies: Our unwillingness to consider the effects our actions have several generations into the future and/or further than our own backyard.


 

Offline Phil1907

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« Reply #28 on: 24/03/2009 22:39:58 »
Karsten - my comment to "bored" whatever meant that no scientist would ask such a childish question - re is man the greaest environmental disaster.
 

Offline 112inky

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« Reply #29 on: 26/03/2009 04:17:18 »
We all should encourage the use of natural and environment friendly objects at our homes and other places.  Letís stop using products that are harmful and work towards a greener and healthier environment.

For this to take place all people should me made aware of the fact thatwe dont have a spare earth for our next generation and we are supposed to protect the existing one!!!!
 

Offline Phil1907

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« Reply #30 on: 26/03/2009 08:56:10 »
"Spare earth" - as emotional and technically meaningless as the 1st post in this string. 
Grow up, children.
 

Offline Raghavendra

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« Reply #31 on: 26/03/2009 09:10:18 »
ya phil you are right?
 

Offline Karsten

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« Reply #32 on: 26/03/2009 20:05:36 »
Grow up, children.

And do what? What makes you think that "growing up" is going to help? What does that mean? Getting older? Wiser? How does wiser look like in your opinion? To think like you? Or does it mean stop dreaming and begin fitting in? Do what you are told to do by the elders? Be a good consumer and continue doing what we have done?

 

Offline Bored chemist

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« Reply #33 on: 26/03/2009 20:15:49 »
Karsten - my comment to "bored" whatever meant that no scientist would ask such a childish question - re is man the greaest environmental disaster.
Part of the role of the scientist is to ask odd questions.
Another part is to challenge people's ideas.
Perhaps, when you have grown up you will realise that. In the meantime perhaps you could try to keep the ad hom attacks under control. I'm big enough and ugly enough not to care, but you might want to think about the damage they do to your reputation.

If you drop the word "natural" from the original post then it becomes practically a truism.
The idea that "We all should encourage the use of environment friendly objects at our homes and other places.  Letís stop using products that are harmful and work towards a greener and healthier environment" is difficult to argue against, at least as an aspiration.
« Last Edit: 26/03/2009 20:21:07 by Bored chemist »
 

Offline 112inky

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« Reply #34 on: 28/03/2009 13:00:01 »
We all should encourage the use of natural and environment friendly objects at our homes and other places.  Letís stop using products that are harmful and work towards a greener and healthier environment.

What do you mean by Harmful products??? Please be more specific because we need to use some unnatural products!!!!! So that people  have a clear picture...
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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« Reply #35 on: 28/03/2009 13:03:22 »
No one knows. That's half of the problem! :D
 

Offline Karsten

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« Reply #36 on: 30/03/2009 01:39:34 »
I am afraid the original author of the post abandoned it.
 

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« Reply #36 on: 30/03/2009 01:39:34 »

 

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