# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: What is a massless object?  (Read 6216 times)

#### Astronomer_FB

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##### What is a massless object?
« on: 04/03/2009 11:14:14 »
What are some massless objects if there is any? And How is it possible for that to be something that is made nothing at all, or is it just so small we do not numbers in the decimals to read it?

#### Vern

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##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #1 on: 04/03/2009 11:57:19 »
Photon's move at the speed of light and so we say they have no mass. They do have the property of frequency, or the rate of change of the electromagnetic field that comprise them.

#### lightarrow

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##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #2 on: 04/03/2009 11:59:00 »
What are some massless objects if there is any? And How is it possible for that to be something that is made nothing at all, or is it just so small we do not numbers in the decimals to read it?
I know it could sound as an annoying consideration, but if you can tell me why an object, in your point of view, have to have mass, for it to be real, than I can answer you in the more complete and precise way.

#### Astronomer_FB

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##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #3 on: 04/03/2009 19:49:08 »
What are some massless objects if there is any? And How is it possible for that to be something that is made nothing at all, or is it just so small we do not numbers in the decimals to read it?
I know it could sound as an annoying consideration, but if you can tell me why an object, in your point of view, have to have mass, for it to be real, than I can answer you in the more complete and precise way.
It just to be massless is mind disorienting for me. to think something will have a mass of 0  it would not displace any water at all no matter how much of it is there. That is the most confusing part to it, i realize what you  are saying when you are asking me why i something has to have mass to be real it is not that i don't believe but have not seen or heard.  I go by a rule in science "keep your mind open but not so open that your brain falls out."

#### lightarrow

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##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #4 on: 04/03/2009 19:58:51 »
It just to be massless is mind disorienting for me. to think something will have a mass of 0  it would not displace any water at all no matter how much of it is there.
Think about how much more mass human feelings can displace...Do they have mass?  However, it seems you have found your psychological reason: something is real if it displaces water.

Quote
That is the most confusing part to it, i realize what you  are saying when you are asking me why i something has to have mass to be real it is not that i don't believe but have not seen or heard.  I go by a rule in science "keep your mind open but not so open that your brain falls out."
Consider that what has mass is "nothing else" than energy confined in a defined region of space, so even what has mass is actually "virtual".

#### Supercryptid

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##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #5 on: 04/03/2009 20:26:00 »
Quote
It just to be massless is mind disorienting for me. to think something will have a mass of 0  it would not displace any water at all no matter how much of it is there.
Light doesn't displace water, and it is quite real.

#### Astronomer_FB

• Full Member
• Posts: 64
##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #6 on: 04/03/2009 20:34:32 »
It just to be massless is mind disorienting for me. to think something will have a mass of 0  it would not displace any water at all no matter how much of it is there.
Think about how much more mass human feelings can displace...Do they have mass?  However, it seems you have found your psychological reason: something is real if it displaces water.

Quote
That is the most confusing part to it, i realize what you  are saying when you are asking me why i something has to have mass to be real it is not that i don't believe but have not seen or heard.  I go by a rule in science "keep your mind open but not so open that your brain falls out."
Consider that what has mass is "nothing else" than energy confined in a defined region of space, so even what has mass is actually "virtual".
that and super cryptids  post just made me get it thanks alot guys i somewhat understand it.

#### yor_on

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##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #7 on: 05/03/2009 20:20:05 »

Quote
Light doesn't displace water, and it is quite real.

#### Supercryptid

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##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #8 on: 05/03/2009 22:29:34 »
Quote

Which part? That light doesn't displace water or that light is real?

We could all question what makes something "real" or not, but the general consensus by science and laymen alike is that light exists.

As for the part about displacing water, light is composed of bosons. Many bosons can occupy the same quantum state at the same time. You can never "fill up" a jar with light. The same cannot be said for electrons, and this is one reason that matter as we know it takes up space and is tangible. The other reason being the electrons mutually repel one-another due to electrical charge.

Or if you think that light does displace water, maybe you should shine a flashlight into the bathtub and see if the water level changes.

#### itisus

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##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #9 on: 05/03/2009 22:59:08 »

Which part? That light doesn't displace water or that light is real?

Water isn't real.  The properties recognized as "water" are not present in any molecule.  That's why I never dive head first.

Light, on the other hand is lighter than anything else except for some stuff we never see, and even those things are no lighter than light (thus allowing dark to be faster than light).  Such a thing exists necessarily; therefore light exists.
:^)

#### yor_on

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##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #10 on: 06/03/2009 20:34:03 »
No, what I was thinking of was photons and electron clouds.
I don't know if sun light can 'displace' water, but I would expect it to 'transfer' in form of heat. Heat as a 'property' excites molecules and cause them to 'expand' (jiggle), so it all depends on how you define 'displace'. If you by it mean 'Cause to move, both in a concrete and in an abstract sense' then even incoherent sunlight will 'displace' water I thought :)

Mostly I was playing with words though :), but it made me wonder how much sunlight expanded our oceans.

--

Words and their definitions can become regular foxholes
(As I've been 'forced' to notice from time to time:)
« Last Edit: 06/03/2009 20:43:20 by yor_on »

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### What is a massless object?
« Reply #10 on: 06/03/2009 20:34:03 »