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Author Topic: Remember The Alamo!  (Read 4250 times)

Offline JimBob

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Remember The Alamo!
« on: 06/03/2009 22:31:19 »
On this day in history, 1836, Mexican Forces under the Command of General Antonio López de Santa Anna overran the Spanish mission converted to a fortress and put all combatants to the sword, including the wounded. A woman and two children were allowed to leave although there were women among the dead. 400–600 Mexicans were killed or wounded. The number of defenders killed was between 182 and 257 from varying eyewitness accounts. Exact numbers are unknown. The causality ratio inflicted on the Mexican forces was remarkable by any measure. The Texas forces were under the command of William B. Travis and James "Jim" Bowie.


 

Offline Make it Lady

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« Reply #1 on: 07/03/2009 00:11:02 »
Jim Bowie, did he sing "ground control to major Tom!?"
 

Offline Don_1

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« Reply #2 on: 07/03/2009 15:43:03 »
Jim Bowie, did he sing "ground control to major Tom!?"

I should think his song would have been more like 'Mac the Knife'.

Pardon my ignorance, but did Davy Crockett die in this battle? I can't remember. I think one woman was allowed to go free to tell the Texans of the defeat.
« Last Edit: 07/03/2009 15:57:49 by Don_1 »
 

Offline Don_1

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« Reply #3 on: 07/03/2009 16:58:09 »
Actually, this reminds me that I meet a big bloke from California every year at the BETT show at Olympia by the name of...........

Yep, you guessed............

John Wayne.
 

Offline JimBob

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« Reply #4 on: 07/03/2009 17:01:42 »
Yes, John was HUGE. I stood beside him just before a half-time show at a University of Texas football game. 6' 4" or so.

Now my I get back to posting my well informed but rambling answer?
« Last Edit: 07/03/2009 18:37:41 by JimBob »
 

Offline JimBob

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« Reply #5 on: 07/03/2009 17:11:01 »
Yes, it is true that Davvy Crockett died in the battle.

And 'Mac the Knife' would be somewhat fitting. The knife was first commissioned by Rezin Pleasant Bowie, a Louisiana legislator and founder of the first sugar cane mill in the territory. He and his brother, James, also worked as land speculators and slave smugglers. Their partner in the land speculation was the pirate, Jean Lafitte. It was Lafitte who supplied the cannon, gunpowder and shot that allowed US General Andrew Jackson to defeat the British at the Battle of New Orleans during the War of 1812. It was also the idiocy of the British general, General Edward Pakenham as well as  his superiors, all contemptuous of the Americans, ordered Pakenham to assault the well built earthworks.

"When the British troops withdrew [after an initial engagement], the Americans began construction of artillery batteries to protect the earthworks, which were then christened Line Jackson. The Americans installed eight batteries, which included one 32-pound gun, three 24-pounders, one 18-pounder, three 12-pounders, three 6-pounders, and a 6-inch (150 mm) howitzer. Jackson also sent a detachment of men to the west bank of the Mississippi to man two 24-pounders and two 12-pounders from the grounded warship Louisiana."

This line provided a "killing ground" in front of the earthworks because of the arrangement of the batteries and the decision of the Americans to use anti-personnel shot instead of round & exploding shot, as was the norm.

"At the end of the day, the British had a little over 2,000 casualties: 278 dead (including three senior generals), 1186 wounded, and 484 captured or missing. (ref: Brooks, Charles B p.252, Reilly, Robin p.297) The Americans had 71 casualties: 13 dead, 39 wounded, and 19 missing." -- Wikipedia

The British packed up and sailed on to an easier mark, Mobile, Alabama.

But back to the knife.

It was Jim Bowie who made the knife famous ad re-designed it over time. He was an attendant at a duel on a sandbar. The duelers survived but .... well, I'll just copy the Wikipedia summary. This Sandbar Fight is part of the lore of the American West.

"The historical Bowie [knife] was not a single design, but was a series of knives improved several times by Jim Bowie over the years. The earliest such knife, made by Jesse Clifft at Rezin Bowie's request resembled the Spanish hunting knives of the time and differed little from a common butcher knife. The blade, as later described by Rezin Bowie, was 9.5 inches (24 cm) long, 0.25 inches (0.64 cm) thick and 1.5 inches (3.8 cm) wide. It was straight-backed having no clip point nor any hand guard with simple riveted wood scale handle. Rezin presented the knife to his brother because of a recent violent encounter with one Norris Wright. This is the knife that became famous after the sandbar duel of 1827. Bowie and Wright were attendants on opposite sides of the duel. When the principals quit the field, a fight broke out among the attendees and Bowie, though seriously injured by a rifle shot, killed Wright and drove his companions from the sandbar."

These were tough times.
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #6 on: 08/03/2009 03:26:29 »
Get it right. Packenham was Irish.
 

Offline JimBob

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« Reply #7 on: 08/03/2009 04:03:57 »
Get it right. Packenham was Irish.

That is a QOG - quibbling old goat. He was British. "Sir Edward Michael Pakenham (19 March 1778 – 8 January 1815) was a British major general who was killed at the Battle of New Orleans." Wiki.

Even though born in Ireland, his held a commission in the British Army. Q.E.D. he was British by being a commissioned officer, his knighthood and by his father's title, if not by birth. All the Irish lords were mostly of English descent, anyway.

Good Lord, man, Pekenham served as adjutant-general to the future Duke of Wellington! (Hear, hear, cherrio, pip, pip and all that rot!) Pekenham's father sat in the British House of Lords and was made a peer of the realm in 1821. (Yes, after Little Eddie was killed, I know.) That means Eddie MUST and can ONLY be BRITISH!

Next you will be telling me that no Normans were ever Vikings. Give me a break, will ya?

 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #8 on: 08/03/2009 10:29:25 »
Quote
Good Lord, man, Pekenham served as adjutant-general to the future Duke of Wellington! (Hear, hear, cherrio, pip, pip and all that rot!) Pekenham's father sat in the British House of Lords and was made a peer of the realm in 1821. (Yes, after Little Eddie was killed, I know.) That means Eddie MUST and can ONLY be BRITISH!

You were originally talking about Packenham, not Pekenham (FOG)

In any case, there are plenty of cases in olden times of foreign nationals holding commissions in the British Army. That was especially true in the days of the Raj and during the Zulu wars.
 

Offline JimBob

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« Reply #9 on: 08/03/2009 21:20:56 »
FOG on your FOG!

... the British general, General Edward Pakenham as well as  his superiors, all contemptuous of the Americans, ordered Pakenham to assault the well built earthworks.

Get it right. Packenham was Irish.

I do believe it was you sir, who introduced "Peckenham."

And you still hold that the man was totally Irish even though he was a Knight of the British Realm and the brother-in-law of Arthur Wellesley, later 1st Duke of Wellington??

It appears that the British were nancy boys, leaving it to the Irish to fight their wars for them as the British were incompetent soldiers. It took an "Irishman" to beat Napoleon.
 

Offline JimBob

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« Reply #10 on: 08/03/2009 22:26:50 »
I might add that although they needed the Irish and Hessians to fight their land battles, they did have a few chaps who could sail a dingy and fire a cannon.
 

Offline Don_1

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« Reply #11 on: 09/03/2009 09:11:52 »
I might add that although they needed the Irish and Hessians to fight their land battles, they did have a few chaps who could sail a dingy and fire a cannon.

.... and managed to fire at the enemy, rather than their allies!!!!
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #12 on: 09/03/2009 12:21:30 »
I might add that although they needed the Irish and Hessians to fight their land battles, they did have a few chaps who could sail a dingy and fire a cannon.

.... and managed to fire at the enemy, rather than their allies!!!!

 

Offline JimBob

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« Reply #13 on: 09/03/2009 17:38:28 »
I don't get it.
 

Offline Don_1

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« Reply #14 on: 09/03/2009 17:48:09 »
No, of course you don't, it's the Brit's who get it, from an A10 tank buster or similar.
 

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« Reply #15 on: 09/03/2009 23:08:57 »
I remember the incident now - Gulf War I, wasn't it?
 

Offline DoctorBeaver

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« Reply #16 on: 10/03/2009 09:17:24 »
I remember the incident now - Gulf War I, wasn't it?

It? Don't you mean "them"?
 

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« Reply #16 on: 10/03/2009 09:17:24 »

 

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