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Author Topic: What would happen if suddenly math and physics ceased to be exact?  (Read 8262 times)

Offline Emilio Romero

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Just for the fun of the exercise and analysis... What would happen if all of the sudden –say tomorrow at 6:59 am— math and physics ceased to be exact?

emilio



 

Offline tony6789

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hmmm not totally understand wat ya mean like nothing works any more?

ummm im pretty sure hell wud come down i mean everything wud just go to chaos
 

Offline Don_1

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I'd get £20.00 change from a £10.00 note!
 

Offline tony6789

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haha lol
 

Offline tony6789

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but then that £20.00 would mean pretty much nothing =P
 

Offline Emilio Romero

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but then that £20.00 would mean pretty much nothing =P
it depends on how much or how many of something you're buying ;-)
 

Offline Don_1

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but then that £20.00 would mean pretty much nothing =P
it depends on how much or how many of something you're buying ;-)

Ah yes, but without maths, it could be buy 2 get 1 free, or buy free get one too!!!???
 

Offline Emilio Romero

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 :D :D :D
LOL

niiice!!!
and I guess ∑∩∫↑κ  will mean MUSIC.....
 

lyner

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Maths is based on axioms (those are the 'rules') you'd have to change them for Maths to change. A DIFFERENT Maths could be inexact but not the one we know and love, because it is consistent in itself. That's not to say that you couldn't get one apple and another apple and end up with three apples - or at least something like that could happen with wierd particles. But that's not maths. It's reality - or a possible version of a reality.

Physics is NOT exact, in any case. There are two fundamental reasons -

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle says that you can't know a body's speed and position accurately at the same time.

Every measurement is perturbed by the background 'noise' in the measuring equipment, which it there because of thermal vibrations and what is happening at the atomic level in your measuring device.

Then there is Chaos, which was discovered fairly recently and which tells us that, in certain systems with what is called non-linearity,  even vanishingly small differences in starting conditions can produce wildly different results. The popular image of a butterfly beating its wings in South America causing - or not causing - a hurricane a thousand miles away, is an example of chaotic systems.

Three reasons why Physics cannot be exact without any fantasy scenario being involved. The Victorians believed that Physics was more or less sewn up but then these three ideas came up.
 

Offline Emilio Romero

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Maths is based on axioms (those are the 'rules') you'd have to change them for Maths to change. A DIFFERENT Maths could be inexact but not the one we know and love, because it is consistent in itself. That's not to say that you couldn't get one apple and another apple and end up with three apples - or at least something like that could happen with wierd particles. But that's not maths. It's reality - or a possible version of a reality.

Physics is NOT exact, in any case. There are two fundamental reasons -

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle says that you can't know a body's speed and position accurately at the same time.

Every measurement is perturbed by the background 'noise' in the measuring equipment, which it there because of thermal vibrations and what is happening at the atomic level in your measuring device.

Then there is Chaos, which was discovered fairly recently and which tells us that, in certain systems with what is called non-linearity,  even vanishingly small differences in starting conditions can produce wildly different results. The popular image of a butterfly beating its wings in South America causing - or not causing - a hurricane a thousand miles away, is an example of chaotic systems.

Three reasons why Physics cannot be exact without any fantasy scenario being involved. The Victorians believed that Physics was more or less sewn up but then these three ideas came up.

Understood, thanks, I stand corrected.
And I know math is exact.  But, for a sci-fi scenario (and we’ve seen monetary implications so far -LOL-), how chaotic would everything be if suddenly those axioms are not anymore.

 

lyner

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Just invent some  different ones then. The alternative system need not be too rigorous for a Sci Fi story. If the story is good enough, people won't worry too much about the holes. After all, Azimov is full of total bollocks and we still love it.
 

Offline menzoic

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How about this for your idea?

Physics becomes even more unexact and our brains can't understand the current axioms of math, only
ones that don't work, which would make math unexact.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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What would happen if all of the sudden say tomorrow at 6:59 am— math and physics ceased to be exact?
I would be jumping with joy!
 

lyner

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How about this for your idea?

Physics becomes even more unexact and our brains can't understand the current axioms of math, only
ones that don't work, which would make math unexact.

The majority of the population have exactly that appreciation of maths at the moment. No need for Science Fiction!
Just ask anyone what 20 divided by 1/10 is. A frightening number will say 2.
If you were to propose a scenario in which a design fault finds its way into all calculators and computers which makes the same mistake, you would have a possible scenario. Most people will believe the calculator despite what you tell em.
 

Offline Emilio Romero

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.... If you were to propose a scenario in which a design fault finds its way into all calculators and computers which makes the same mistake, you would have a possible scenario. Most people will believe the calculator despite what you tell em....

WOW!!! that's scary... and true!!!
 

Offline tony6789

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What would happen if all of the sudden say tomorrow at 6:59 am— math and physics ceased to be exact?
I would be jumping with joy!

ha if no physics or math existed then there would b no laws of gravity to bring you bak down lol
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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Hmm... didn't think of that. :D
 

lyner

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If you told flies about gravity would they all fall off the ceiling?
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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If you told them about time they'll turn into:

 

lyner

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"Time flies"
You can't ,they fly too fast.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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What? ??? HUH? ???
 

Offline Emilio Romero

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"Time flies like the wind... fruit flies like bananas...".


 

lyner

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What? ??? HUH? ???
Time as with a stop watch over 100m???
 

Offline tangoblue

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things would get very funky.   [O8)] like this dude.
 

Offline Chemistry4me

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