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Author Topic: Fines for smokers and the obese  (Read 12256 times)

Offline Claire

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Fines for smokers and the obese
« on: 04/06/2003 14:35:53 »
I've just been listening to the news and the the British government is thinking of introducing fines and penalties for people who need medical treatment as a consequence of them being smokers or obese. This is because they cost tax payers so much money and waste doctors' time. In principle I think it's a good idea.;)

People who smoke are taking an active decision to do so, so I don't think they have any excuse, although apparently some people are genetically obese and can't do anything about it. I reckon that the possibility of a fine or refusal of medical treatment are the only things that would give my dad an incentive to give up smoking.

What does everyone else think about it? [?] Is it right or wrong?

Claire

p.s. thank you for the French sweeties and champers Exodus. ;) [:X]


 

Offline cuso4

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #1 on: 04/06/2003 16:15:27 »
Yeah I agree with you Claire. Smokers are all dying very slowly [xx(]and it's all down to themselves. In school and college, the effects of smoking in human body have been taught to the students. But a lot of them still end up smoking. Just can't understand what they are thinking![?]. Like you said this policy might be an effective way to encourage people to give up smoking.

As for the genetic obese poeple, I feel sorry for them:(

Angel
 

Offline pat

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #2 on: 05/06/2003 00:27:18 »
Yeah, I'm all for it. Make fatties lose some weight before going anywhere near them with a scalpel.

Smokers - difficult one. These guys genuinely pay for their nhs bill in the taxes they pay on their fags. Sure, once they need treatment, make em stop. But until then, keep fleecing them with heavy taxes whilst making them feel like lepers by insisting they stand outside the office door in the street to smoke !

Fat people though - just a reflection of poor self control. Too many chips, pies, burgers, sausages and ice-cream. Probably.

Pat
 

Offline Exodus

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #3 on: 05/06/2003 01:03:02 »
Pies are nice though...

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Offline nilmot

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #4 on: 05/06/2003 17:30:34 »
Why couldn't smokers take nicotine in via other methods, because it's the nicotine that makes them addicted and tar which kills them. If you only take in nicotine, the smokers PROBABLY won't die, also other non-smoker won't have to be passive smokers

Some people absorb fat better then others, some aren't, for instant I don't absorb fat very well at all (I've stayed quite thin ever since I was born). But I agree with you pat, there are more people who can't control themselves rather than the people who are fat because of their genes.

Tom
 

Offline Exodus

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #5 on: 05/06/2003 18:52:19 »
Tom, nicotine is also involved in the hardening of arteries which can lead heart problems. The biggest killer in smoking is actually heart disease rather than anything lung related.

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Offline cuso4

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #6 on: 06/06/2003 08:13:07 »
Oh really, thanks Richard for clearing that bit. I used to think that nicotine is ONLY a drug that make smokers addicted to cigarattes.

Angel
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #7 on: 07/06/2003 01:37:29 »
I'm an ex-smoker and an ex-fatty, so I'll take a turn on the soap box.  I try hard not to be judgmental because we all have our weaknesses, and you never know what has happened in another person's life that influences their behavior.  Humans are motivated by two things; pleasure and pain.  Since the pleasure of smoking/eating seems to outweigh the pain of harming your body/being fat perhaps the rationale here is to increase the level of pain so that it becomes a more powerful motivator.  But really, the bottom line is choice.  If it helps people make better choices for themselves (and others), then I'm all for it[8D].
 

Offline nilmot

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #8 on: 07/06/2003 13:38:38 »
Exodus, I think you are right. Thinking back more people have died on heart dieases rather than emphysema.

Tom
 

Offline Exodus

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #9 on: 07/06/2003 16:48:18 »
more often than not, smokers are less active than non smokers which means they lead less of a healthy lifestyle, this adds to the problems associated with heart/artery problems.

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Offline chris

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #10 on: 08/06/2003 16:10:57 »
Donnah - how did you give up and shed the excess weight ?

I know of an attempt by the Canadian government (much be over 10 yeara ago now) to disuade people from smoking by doubling the price of a packet of cigarettes. They were shocked to find that the social group who responded the best (and cut down the most) were the members of social class 1 (the richest members of society most able to afford to smoke). amongst the nations poorest levels of smoking remained pretty much the same with them sacrificing healthier aspects of their lifestyles (such as fresh vegetables) to fund their (now much more expensive) smoking habits !

Chris

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Offline cuso4

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #11 on: 08/06/2003 20:11:42 »
Shocking! Can't imagine what their lives are like.

Angel
 

Offline Quantumcat

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #12 on: 09/06/2003 04:34:19 »
Well, that's how they became rich in the first place ....

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #13 on: 10/06/2003 01:20:35 »
It makes perfect sense.  Life is full of choices, and our lifestyles depend largely on the choices we make.  People (in privileged countries) who are poor are usually poor by making a series of bad choices, which stems from some internal belief about themselves and what they deserve in life.  Continuing to smoke at the price of health is just one more bad choice.  We may be handicapped by behaviours learned from our parents, if they have made poor choices throughout their lives.  How do you know that there is something better out there unless you experience it?  And how do you experience it when all you have ever known is mental, emotional, and physical poverty?
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #14 on: 10/06/2003 01:38:12 »
Chris, I was fat for two years, then went bone thin as part of the mercury poisoning.  The fat came on when the illness got bad, but the emaciation was worse, healthwise, and that's when I almost died.

What works now to keep my weight balanced is a diet of about 20 percent protein and lots of fresh fruit, veggies, and reverse osmosis water.  I don't eat sweets, chocolate, anything with yeast or artificial additives in it, and don't drink alcohol.  For treats I buy things like raspberries or cashews.  They are expensive, but no more so than alcohol, and a much better choice.  But I'm not beyond having the occasional (maybe once a week) ice cream, pop, or potato chips (crisps as you say).
 

Offline Quantumcat

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #15 on: 10/06/2003 06:54:54 »
Mercury poisoning?! How did that happen?

What is reverse osmosis water?

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Offline cuso4

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #16 on: 10/06/2003 12:41:56 »
quote:
Originally posted by Quantumcat

What is reverse osmosis water?

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Reverse osmosis is a way of purifying water, I think. But I don't know how that work.

Angel
 

Offline Donnah

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #17 on: 10/06/2003 23:24:53 »
Erin, if you read ->Medicine ->Mercury it tells how I was exposed to mercury.

Reverse osmosis passes water through a very fine membrane to filter out metals and other impurities.
 

Offline Quantumcat

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #18 on: 11/06/2003 07:58:07 »
Ah, right, okay. I remember the word "osmosis" from year 8 chemistry, but couldn't remember what it was. something to do with salt concentrations was all I could remember. But anyway, sorry to hear about the poisoning.

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Offline cuso4

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #19 on: 11/06/2003 12:35:19 »
You should come across the word osmosis a lot more if you do biology. Its definition is the movement of water from an area of high water potential to an area of lower water potential across a selectively permeable membrane.

I suppose that reverse osmosis is the movement of water against the water potential gradient. This is why a lot of electricity is needed to power a reverse osmosis machine.

Angel
 

Offline nilmot

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #20 on: 11/06/2003 13:37:57 »
Can't you purify water with evaporation?

Tom
 

Offline cuso4

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #21 on: 11/06/2003 14:52:37 »
I think what you mean is distillation. Of course you can but the process is slow. You'd have wait for a long time to get few drops of water.

Angel
 

Offline Exodus

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #22 on: 11/06/2003 21:02:59 »
This is going way off topic...

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Offline cuso4

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #23 on: 11/06/2003 21:55:05 »
Who cares? We never stay on a topic anyway. Just think how we can start by talking about how people found out about the forum and some how relate it to Angel Delight then Tom Thumb and finally end up with quantum mechanics:D

Angel
« Last Edit: 11/06/2003 22:24:34 by cuso4 »
 

Offline Quantumcat

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #24 on: 12/06/2003 07:20:05 »
Haha. Yes, you're right, we definitely don't seem to stay on topic very often.

I made a distillation machine once by myself, I still have it, I'm very proud of it:D

The words "reverse osmosis" sound almost like the brain-washing fake-science that healthfood companies often use. But I guess not :-p

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Re: Fines for smokers and the obese
« Reply #24 on: 12/06/2003 07:20:05 »

 

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